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I couldn't escape poison oak, so I started eating it

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Re: I couldn't escape poison oak, so I started eating it

#91

Post by jajko »

samatman wrote: post #62
taurusnoises wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not how it works with these plants. Prolonged, sustained exposure results in worse symptoms over time as your immune response increases in intensity. https://www.pbsnc.org/blogs/science/poison-ivy-and-its-pals-...

That can't possibly be true. East Asian countries have a long tradition of lacquerware, which is made with urushiol-containing saps. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lacquerware In fact urushi is the Japanese word for lacquer, the plant is in the genus Toxicodendron. Like most jobs until recently, making lacquerware was hereditary, and (clearly) the people making it were able to withstand sustained and direct exposure.…

Wasnt there some sort of natural selection centuries ago so that only folks tolerant to such chemistry actually performed the job?

I know next to nothing about these topics but there are some wildly opposite claims in this thread. Truth has the tendency, despite being complex, to generqlly favor one direction.

Re: I couldn't escape poison oak, so I started eating it

#92

Post by sdwr »

FLT8 wrote: post #20

My first introduction to urushiol was as a kid... there was a Japanese rhus tree [1] near my local bus stop and I happened to play with some of the seed pods while waiting for a bus one day. I ended up looking like the elephant man for a few days, and it took a bit of time to figure out what was going on. It turns out that Urushiol shows up in some surprising places, including mango skin, which I discovered later in…

My sister got a strange rash on her face growing up.. our pediatrician traced it back to the boxes of mangos she ate

Re: I couldn't escape poison oak, so I started eating it

#93

Post by jtc331 »

burnte wrote: post #52
AlbertCory wrote: post #40

Doctors are pretty much required to follow Establishment medicine. They're not going to tell you about folk remedies, because it could be malpractice for them. By way of contrast, I've told my doctor about sinus rinsing, and she was not disapproving. But she said, "a lot of my patients do this and they seem to like it." I think this is a better response than blanket disapproval. The corresponding response to urushiol…

> Doctors are pretty much required to follow Establishment medicine. They're not going to tell you about folk remedies, because it could be malpractice for them. Not in the USA. In the USA doctors can absolutely recommend non-medical treatments like supplements and homeopathy and other crap. Each doctor has their own threshold of comfort in what they will and won't recommend. But as you yourself then followed up, you…

Doctors in hospital/healthcare systems are generally limited like the GP suggested. Independent doctors are much more able to do otherwise.

Re: I couldn't escape poison oak, so I started eating it

#94

Post by iJohnDoe »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #44

You don't need to eat it. A well-known phenomenon in the US military is that some of the sites for Basic Training of new recruits have prodigious quantities of poison oak/ivy/sumac as the local flora. As consequence of the military training, you are rolling around in those plants daily. Initially, a large percentage of people have the usual reaction but it quickly disappears after a few weeks and it never happens aga…

About a half dozen times or more being exposed led to worse and worse reactions. It was awful.

I’ve also never heard from others that your body gets used to it. I’ve always heard it gets worse every time, which was my experience. Obviously anecdata.

Re: I couldn't escape poison oak, so I started eating it

#95

Post by talkingtab »

I have worked with Urushi, aka Japanese lacquer. You get a rash, some people never get over it. Others do get over it, and I did. Years ago I was in the black thumb club. I could stick my thumb in Urushi, and not get a rash. Since Urushi was a big thing in Japan (and other places), people who worked harvesting or packaging or using it either got over or did not. I have a friend who did not. He said he could walk down the street and detect if there was raw Urushi anywhere near by.

I still got a "tingle" even when I did not get a rash.

The way to tolerate the adaptation is hot water - spray water as hot as you can stand (without damage) on the affected area and you will get substantial relief for about 12 hours. The relief of hot water on an affected area cannot be understated. A friend used the word "orgasmic" and it fits. I can almost imagine someone purposefully getting the rash just to take a shower.

Finally in this bizarre world of Urushi - when it is cured (warm & humid), NOT dried, the chemical properties change so the coating does not cause problems. If you see photos of Chinese or Japanese rice bows ls that are red or black they are probably wooden bowl coated with Urushi and cured. Urushi as used to make eating utensils.

There is more. There are an incredible number of decorative techniques. Supposedly each village had its own. One of the best is Rankaku. Tiny chips of quail egg shells are placed to form a pattern.

Re: I couldn't escape poison oak, so I started eating it

#96

Post by zdragnar »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #44

You don't need to eat it. A well-known phenomenon in the US military is that some of the sites for Basic Training of new recruits have prodigious quantities of poison oak/ivy/sumac as the local flora. As consequence of the military training, you are rolling around in those plants daily. Initially, a large percentage of people have the usual reaction but it quickly disappears after a few weeks and it never happens aga…

My personal experience is quite the opposite. Repeated exposure to poison ivy resulted in worse symptoms each time, leading to a scar from one particular welt that lasted years.

Something similar happened to my father (we had moved to a new house that had a large patch that kept coming back) and the year before he finally managed to get rid of it, his reaction was so bad he actually couldn't eat cashews for a long time, since they can have traces of the urishol.

Re: I couldn't escape poison oak, so I started eating it

#97

Post by paulgerhardt »

01100011 wrote: post #83
echelon wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> lost their sensitivity to poison oak via the accidental chronic exposure regimen This is not how the immune system is known to work. Sensitivity does not downregulate. Increased exposure enhances detection and response. Recognition proliferates. Once you're allergic to something, it'll only worsen. You can become allergic to new things, but you won't lose allergies unless the recognizer population dies off entirely…

I've lost allergies to chocolate and soy. If you can't lose allergies, why is exposure therapy a thing?

Simply because you’re both right.

One is correct in that repeated exposure to an allergen can upregulate IgE production, especially in cases of severe allergies like bee stings or peanuts. This is due to the immune system's sensitization process, where each exposure can lead to more intense reactions, driven by the Th2-mediated immune response that promotes IgE production and allergic inflammation.

However, one is also correct that controlled exposure through allergen immunotherapy (SCIT or SLIT) can downregulate IgE and mitigate allergic responses. This therapy works by gradually introducing the allergen in controlled doses, which shifts the immune response from a Th2-dominated profile to a Th1-dominated or regulatory T cell (Treg) profile. This shift reduces IgE levels and increases the production of blocking antibodies like IgG4, leading to long-term desensitization and reduced allergic reactions.

In particular environmental allergens (pollens, dust mites, animal dander, molds), insect venoms (bee, wasp) may respond well to immunotherapy but we’ve had poor success or disproportionate risk attempting to mitigate food allergens (peanuts, tree nuts, and shellfish), certain medications, and latex .

Re: I couldn't escape poison oak, so I started eating it

#98

Post by [deleted] »

elevatedastalt wrote: post #89
echelon wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> lost their sensitivity to poison oak via the accidental chronic exposure regimen This is not how the immune system is known to work. Sensitivity does not downregulate. Increased exposure enhances detection and response. Recognition proliferates. Once you're allergic to something, it'll only worsen. You can become allergic to new things, but you won't lose allergies unless the recognizer population dies off entirely…

Looks like you are giving "Ackshually" technically correct points, when it's clear what others are trying to say. Please engage with what they are trying to convey instead of coming up with technical gotchas.

[deleted]

Re: I couldn't escape poison oak, so I started eating it

#99

Post by AlbertCory »

Zenzero wrote: post #71
burnte wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Doctors are pretty much required to follow Establishment medicine. They're not going to tell you about folk remedies, because it could be malpractice for them. Not in the USA. In the USA doctors can absolutely recommend non-medical treatments like supplements and homeopathy and other crap. Each doctor has their own threshold of comfort in what they will and won't recommend. But as you yourself then followed up, you…

> But it's a lot less black and white than you seem to feel. That's the problem. The concept of what is reasonable is too nebulous to rely on. Also people are quite simply really dumb. You can make some innocuous statement like "others have found nasal rinses to be beneficial", and some idiot will get themselves hospitalized with a draining abscess in their face. It turns out that person decided their nasal rinse was…

Do you have an actual instance of something like that happening? I'm not saying it never has. An MD ought to know his/her patients well enough to judge what kind of idiocy they're likely to go off and try.

One thing where I do not have a link is but I recall it happening is: quackery is impossible to kill with research. Someone does a double- blind study showing that peach pits are worthless against cancer, and the peach pit "doctors" just say "studied by legitimate science!" or "more research is needed!"

Re: I couldn't escape poison oak, so I started eating it

#100

Post by lazide »

samtho wrote: post #35
Sebb767 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you don't know why your body is fevering, don't lower the fever. If you don't know why your blood pressure is high, don't lower it. And if you don't know why you have cancer, don't do anything about it? Like, I get the point with fever (which is a known defense mechanism), but high blood pressure is a big problem in the long run and even if it's just a symptom, not doing anything about it is not likely to be the…

The point is that we treat certain things like high blood pressure as a primary issue instead of a secondary one. Instead of addressing something cholesterol, which can often be a lifestyle issue, more emphasis is placed on just taking the statin.

because most people will refuse to address the lifestyle issue, not because they aren’t made extremely aware of it!
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