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"Outrageously" priced weight-loss drugs could bankrupt US health care

arstechnica.com

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Re: "Outrageously" priced weight-loss drugs could bankrupt US health care

#91

Post by epylar »

paulmd wrote: post #82
willio58 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I 100% agree that GLP-1 antagonists won’t lead most to making actual changes to their behaviors with food outside of forcing them to not over-eat when actively taking the drug, I am not so sure about your hot take here. A woman I know has been on this stuff for a couple years now and while she has plateaued for about 6 months, her current weight is now in a healthier spot. It’s crazy what losing some weight can…

There is also a nexus with the reward system of the brain in general, and semaglutide definitely seems to have effects similar to ADHD medication in these respects. It also seems to help alcoholism for the same reasons - it helps reduce the underlying dysregulation in the reward system that keeps people in that loop. Probably this will be the next patent-ever greening strategy pursued after the weight loss thing. It’…

Speaking of the effect in the brain, a rare but real side effect in many people is anxiety to the point where they have to discontinue the med. I wonder why.

Re: "Outrageously" priced weight-loss drugs could bankrupt US health care

#92

Post by voisin »

ClassyJacket wrote: post #27
voisin wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd argue that there's a moral imperative to bootleg the drug and distribute it to those who would benefit from it at a fair price. Why not do away with patents and IP altogether if the standard is that as soon as someone makes something needed it can be stolen?

I'm in favour of doing away with patents entirely. Or maybe make them 3 years and not 20.

And what about the second order effect of nobody wanting to do billions of dollars worth of research and trials for the slim possibility of hitting a safe and effective drug, only to have exclusivity for 3 years?

Re: "Outrageously" priced weight-loss drugs could bankrupt US health care

#93

Post by operatingthetan »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #41
operatingthetan wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>To be blunt most people would probably choose to remain fat vs. buying an illegal generic. Wow, I think the exact opposite. Weight loss is a huge industry and people are desperate.

Fentanyl seems to be tainting a lot of black market drugs lately. I'd want to test anything if it came from unofficial sources.

Totally different markets. They are adding fentanyl to cut intoxicant drugs as a way to make more money. Nobody gets high on a GLP-1. Never heard of supplement/nootropic drugs being tainted and doesn't make sense that anyone would on purpose because they are sold by companies with web stores and credit card processors.

Re: "Outrageously" priced weight-loss drugs could bankrupt US health care

#94

Post by RcouF1uZ4gsC »

redwoolf wrote: post #75
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Illness should not be a source of profit. Exactly. Let's take this further. Nobody should be making money off other people's suffering. So. Let's also zero out doctor's and nurse's salaries. Hospital administrator's salaries. This would also apply to all charities that try to alleviate any suffering. No administrator should make any money off other people's suffering. The only profitable enterprise should be showin…

This is a very disingenuous argument. There's a huge difference between a doctor making $300k a year and a relatively small amount of people making millions (or billions) selling easily mass produced chemicals at prices that can't be afforded out-of-pocket. And you know this, but you think you're being clever. It's not clever.

This is a very disingenuous argument.

These same people are the ones who formulated a chemical that works, proved that it works, proved that it is safe. That same chemical improves the health of the population saving billions in costs and quality adjusted life years. So just describing it as just a manufacturing cost is disingenuous.

And you know this, but you think you're being clever. It's not clever.

Re: "Outrageously" priced weight-loss drugs could bankrupt US health care

#95

Post by bilsbie »

Tuna-Fish wrote: post #58
bilsbie wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is compounding? What raw ingredients do they start with? How is it possible?

They are compounding the useful, active ingredient which they are purchasing from some mass manufacturer with some pointless thing they happen to have on hand and that provides a legal fig leaf that the medicine was tailored specifically for you. The reason compounding pharmacies are very useful in the US is not because the process of compounding is useful; it's that they have carveouts in regulations that make it ha…

Do they still require a prescription?

Re: "Outrageously" priced weight-loss drugs could bankrupt US health care

#96

Post by throwaway-blaze »

nsagent wrote: post #18
voisin wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd argue that there's a moral imperative to bootleg the drug and distribute it to those who would benefit from it at a fair price. Why not do away with patents and IP altogether if the standard is that as soon as someone makes something needed it can be stolen?

I'm not sure what the right solution is, but making 160x the manufacturing cost seems a bit obscene. Not sure what the total cost of R&D was, but at that rate of return those R&D costs have to be recovered relatively quickly and then it becomes a pure profit machine.

No one is mentioning the liability costs (and liability insurance costs) here in the US vs other western countries, which is playing into the costs of these new-to-market drugs. In 10 years or so, when there's an established history of non-issues with the drugs, premiums will be lower for the companies. Plus these initial versions will begin to lose patent protection and generics will flood the market.

Personally I'd rather have a system where these kinds of innovations are made and where they eventually become widely available than a system where govt or others forcefully take or force-price an innovation, thus harming future innovations.

Re: "Outrageously" priced weight-loss drugs could bankrupt US health care

#97

Post by bottlepalm »

redwoolf wrote: post #77
bottlepalm wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like education, government involvement only causes prices to go up. Why wouldn't they? The government has unlimited money. The education and healthcare industry beats the government like a money pinata. Why would you suggest more government to a government created problem? Usually because people don't realize the government as the root cause in the first place. Get the government out, let people actually pay for thei…

> Capitalism actually works if you let it. This argument is always that if the government would just step out of the way the private market would provide for everyone and there would be full employment. As though somehow things like minimum wages and OSHA are what keep capitalism from reaching its full potential. As though things were better in the 19th century. I've read Friedman and Hayek. The world they wanted is…

Nothing wrong with minimum wage and OSHA. When the government creates a level playing field, capitalism can flourish.

When companies stop competing with each other, and start trying to suck as much money out of the government that they can - that's when things fall apart.

Re: "Outrageously" priced weight-loss drugs could bankrupt US health care

#98

Post by bottlepalm »

bitcharmer wrote: post #87
bottlepalm wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like education, government involvement only causes prices to go up. Why wouldn't they? The government has unlimited money. The education and healthcare industry beats the government like a money pinata. Why would you suggest more government to a government created problem? Usually because people don't realize the government as the root cause in the first place. Get the government out, let people actually pay for thei…

> government involvement only causes prices to go up This is so hilariously wrong I'm not even going to address it.

Give me a break. Inflation, housing, healthcare, education, I can go on and on. You have no argument.

You either pay for things up front with taxes, or you pay for them later by way of inflation. There's no free lunch.

The government has chosen inflation. Really at this point they'd save money by shutting down the IRS, dismantling the entire tax system and just pay for things by printing what they need. Inflation is the ultimate flat tax.

Re: "Outrageously" priced weight-loss drugs could bankrupt US health care

#99

Post by namlem »

adbge wrote: post #4
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #2

> A study by researchers at Yale estimated that drugs like Wegovy can be profitably manufactured for less than $5 per month. Serious question: Why not just bootleg the stuff? It's a very small protein, easy to make, and "research chemical" companies that sell structurally similar bodybuilding drugs and nootropics are a dime a dozen. Search online for "BPC-157" (a protein drug of only slightly inferior complexity) and…

These same companies that manufacture and distribute BPC-157 and bodybuilding drugs already also offer various GLP1 drugs, semaglutide, tirzepatide, retatrutide. Google around and you can find them available for much cheaper via grey market vendors.

Where does one go to find these vendors? Are they the sorts of places that other sites prohibit links to?

Re: "Outrageously" priced weight-loss drugs could bankrupt US health care

#100

Post by namlem »

redwoolf wrote: post #11

The USA should nationalize the health care industry and all the pharmaceutical companies. Illness should not be a source of profit.

No thanks, I'd rather not permanently destroy a productive and innovative industry with communist schemes.
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