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Oracle dumps Terraform for OpenTofu

thestack.technology

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Re: Oracle dumps Terraform for OpenTofu

#91
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was wondering, once IBM got Hashicorp, if they would reverse the license change for Terraform. Not been that long since the announcement, so still hoping they will.

Has there ever been notable instances of company regretting and reversing license change of a major project?

Oracle ended OpenSolaris although forks continue. Nokia and friends ended OpenSymbian, no forks afaik.

Re: Oracle dumps Terraform for OpenTofu

#92
Slightly off-topic, but one of my greatest pet-peeves of working in devops is every few years a new "killer tech" comes out that some contingent of very-highly-opinionated (though not always very senior) people insists is life-and-death stakes and wants the whole company to move to (e.g. terraform).

Too often it's a failure. Too often it has some upsides, but also is a LOT of work that is discovered over time. Too often it's seen as good BUT now some incompatible new version or alternative requires the whole debacle start again.

I only want to learn technologies that will be relevant until the day I retire, otherwise I'm not advancing, it's all just a treadmill.

Re: Oracle dumps Terraform for OpenTofu

#93
post #92

Slightly off-topic, but one of my greatest pet-peeves of working in devops is every few years a new "killer tech" comes out that some contingent of very-highly-opinionated (though not always very senior) people insists is life-and-death stakes and wants the whole company to move to (e.g. terraform). Too often it's a failure. Too often it has some upsides, but also is a LOT of work that is discovered over time. Too of…

Welcome to technology.

Yes, I too wish I could make a living programming in 65C02 assembly on my Apple //e like I did in 1986.

I also don’t see any reason I have to learn about S3 instead of storing all of my files on an on prem CDRW jukebox

Re: Oracle dumps Terraform for OpenTofu

#94
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats the way world works. Here in this forum so many software people asking for best possible salaries and perks, and when it comes paying a bit to good productivity software same developers are always full of excuses like. 1) Oh, I prefer open source alternative for ideological reason. 2) This software is not really worth that much. 3) Hectoring developers every single time in providing why their software should be…

I mean, sometimes the entitled developers are right and predict that the monetization of a software product will lead to it's inevitable demise. More often than not that's how these sorts of projects end up. Linux as a whole exists because developers said "fuck AT&T, we're taking this train off the rails" and nobody ever looked back since.

And the majority of code in Linux is created by corporate employees getting paid to make changes. Those companies are merely helping to “commoditize their complements”

Re: Oracle dumps Terraform for OpenTofu

#95
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oracle has a long history of not documenting all of this stuff and instead suggesting you should hire one of their army of consultants to help tune the OS or Database for you.

If we are talking about tuning for a specific workload, what’s wrong with that? If your in-house DBA doesn’t have the experience to perform the specific tuning required, then that’s what support contracts are for The documentation can’t cover every customer’s use case and configuration. That’s just enabling folk to blindly copy inappropriate sysctls they don’t understand like they are building gentoo kernels.

You don't need to cover every use case. You just need to document what stuff does and how it affects to various workloads. A good engineer can from that information infer what they need for their workload. But not documenting that a control exists so that you can be bill you for consulting puts you in my "will not use" category.

Re: Oracle dumps Terraform for OpenTofu

#96
post #92

Slightly off-topic, but one of my greatest pet-peeves of working in devops is every few years a new "killer tech" comes out that some contingent of very-highly-opinionated (though not always very senior) people insists is life-and-death stakes and wants the whole company to move to (e.g. terraform). Too often it's a failure. Too often it has some upsides, but also is a LOT of work that is discovered over time. Too of…

You have to carve your own path. I've experienced the same revelation and have adopted FreeBSD and Erlang. It's for hobby / home use but if I ever launch it'll be on this stack. It's been a rewarding journey. YMMV, but this is how I dealt with this situation.

Re: Oracle dumps Terraform for OpenTofu

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, sometimes the entitled developers are right and predict that the monetization of a software product will lead to it's inevitable demise. More often than not that's how these sorts of projects end up. Linux as a whole exists because developers said "fuck AT&T, we're taking this train off the rails" and nobody ever looked back since.

And the majority of code in Linux is created by corporate employees getting paid to make changes. Those companies are merely helping to “commoditize their complements”

That's not really a problem as long as the source license stays the same. If Amazon or Microsoft need a feature in the kernel, nobody tends to care as long as it's GPL.

> Those companies are merely helping to “commoditize their complements”

That's how they justify it internally, yeah. From an administrative standpoint it's pretty obvious that they all choose Linux because it's easier than retrofitting proprietary UNIX for modern software. But indeed, they market it as goodwill and complimentary development.

Re: Oracle dumps Terraform for OpenTofu

#98
post #90
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats the way world works. Here in this forum so many software people asking for best possible salaries and perks, and when it comes paying a bit to good productivity software same developers are always full of excuses like. 1) Oh, I prefer open source alternative for ideological reason. 2) This software is not really worth that much. 3) Hectoring developers every single time in providing why their software should be…

It's important to remember that a community is not a single minded entity. It's members can hold many contradicting beliefs, while each individual is ideologically consistent. This shouldn't be unexpected and it's not an excuse to be dismissive to an imagined hypocrite. Not saying there aren't hypocrites in this world, just that we shouldn't treat members of a community as some kind of superset of everything in that…

Its not unexpected and neither is Oracle's approach unexpected still its worth talking about.

Besides I made observation about people in community and not community itself as I did not say HN thinks software should not be paid for.

Re: Oracle dumps Terraform for OpenTofu

#99
post #33
post #16

Following IBM's acquisition of Hashicorp the moves seems unsurprising, they wouldn't want to be beholden to a competitor. We'll inevitably see others large companies follow suite - it was one thing when hashicorp was independent tech company but it's very different when it's owned by a direct competitor.

IBM prolly got them to agree to do the re-licensing move "as Hashicorp" as part of the take over deal. So it would not look bad on IBM.

From what I have read Hashicorp did this relicensing since IBM was reselling Vault at scale in IBM cloud. They wanted to force IBM and other cloud providers to pay them instead I believe.

IBM employees then initiated the fork of vault which is called openbao. Later IBM buys Hashicorp. The fork might have just been an attempt at leverage in the negotiations but it remains to be seen if it will live on.

Re: Oracle dumps Terraform for OpenTofu

#100

been using terraform heavily for 5 years and have hacked together modules and custom providers for various ad-hoc things. One of the things that has always really frustrated me about terraform is that it seems to go out of its way to make you do things in a very annoying, inconsistent way. Part of this is necessary due to the nature of the provider ecosystem, you can't guarantee consistency across providers - and I w…

What really grinds my gears is how hard it is to refactor terraform code. Put something in a module, but want to move it elsewhere? Get ready for pain.

I've been using terranix, which uses nix to generate a tf.json file, and oh my god is the experience night and day. I can make functions! I can refactor! And if it's a pure refactor, there is nothing to apply.

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