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Ordered back to the office, top tech talent left instead, study finds

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Re: Ordered back to the office, top tech talent left instead, study finds

#91

Post by tucnak »

maxbond wrote: post #88
tucnak wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So cynical! I'm trembling.

I would say your position is the cynical one. Encouraging the people who don't tie their identity to their workplace to leave so that you are only left with the ones who "care" is manipulative. It reminds me of the time I went to a real estate scam seminar. At the halfway mark, they encouraged everyone who wasn't ready to sign a check on the spot not to come back from intermission. This concept of "caring" is just a…

There's nothing cynical about my position. It's better to be naive and go from one corporate family to another with a caring attitude, attempting to make a difference, committing to hard work, and having your heart broken, than becoming a sorry bastard like you guys.

You don't need to "volunteer" anything, or do unpaid labour—to care. All this attitude of "the world/company/country owes me big-time" is poisoning your soul, man.

Re: Ordered back to the office, top tech talent left instead, study finds

#92

Post by tucnak »

greenthrow wrote: post #80
tucnak wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So cynical! I'm trembling.

Don't be childish. It's just the truth.

I think we should take the time to get in touch with your employer, and let them know that you DON'T GIVE A FUCK, & some more about how "caring" is for pussies, or should I say greens/grifting executives.

Re: Ordered back to the office, top tech talent left instead, study finds

#93

Post by maxbond »

tucnak wrote: post #91
maxbond wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say your position is the cynical one. Encouraging the people who don't tie their identity to their workplace to leave so that you are only left with the ones who "care" is manipulative. It reminds me of the time I went to a real estate scam seminar. At the halfway mark, they encouraged everyone who wasn't ready to sign a check on the spot not to come back from intermission. This concept of "caring" is just a…

There's nothing cynical about my position. It's better to be naive and go from one corporate family to another with a caring attitude, attempting to make a difference, committing to hard work, and having your heart broken, than becoming a sorry bastard like you guys. You don't need to "volunteer" anything, or do unpaid labour—to care. All this attitude of "the world/company/country owes me big-time" is poisoning your…

You might be surprised to hear I actually do care deeply about my work and my colleagues, and have spent many a late night firefighting in production, shown up when it wasn't necessarily expected, et cetera.

It's not about entitlement, is about healthy boundaries around working life. There is no virtue in burning yourself out. Your manager who tells you that you're "part of the family" is not being honest with you. When your interests and your employer's interests diverge, it will turn out that it was just a workplace, after all.

Ask your coworkers who "care" what they think.

Re: Ordered back to the office, top tech talent left instead, study finds

#94

Post by greenthrow »

tucnak wrote: post #92
greenthrow wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't be childish. It's just the truth.

I think we should take the time to get in touch with your employer, and let them know that you DON'T GIVE A FUCK, & some more about how "caring" is for pussies , or should I say greens/grifting executives.

[flagged]

Re: Ordered back to the office, top tech talent left instead, study finds

#95

Post by tucnak »

maxbond wrote: post #93
tucnak wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing cynical about my position. It's better to be naive and go from one corporate family to another with a caring attitude, attempting to make a difference, committing to hard work, and having your heart broken, than becoming a sorry bastard like you guys. You don't need to "volunteer" anything, or do unpaid labour—to care. All this attitude of "the world/company/country owes me big-time" is poisoning your…

You might be surprised to hear I actually do care deeply about my work and my colleagues, and have spent many a late night firefighting in production, shown up when it wasn't necessarily expected, et cetera. It's not about entitlement, is about healthy boundaries around working life. There is no virtue in burning yourself out. Your manager who tells you that you're "part of the family" is not being honest with you. W…

Nothing in any of my messages indicates that I'm condoning "burnout", or any other things that you choose to draw lines in the sand around. And yet, you keep lecturing me on values of work-life balance. I care, some of my coworkers do, too. We all know who doesn't.

Re: Ordered back to the office, top tech talent left instead, study finds

#96

Post by tucnak »

greenthrow wrote: post #94
tucnak wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we should take the time to get in touch with your employer, and let them know that you DON'T GIVE A FUCK, & some more about how "caring" is for pussies , or should I say greens/grifting executives.

[flagged]

[flagged]

Re: Ordered back to the office, top tech talent left instead, study finds

#97

Post by maxbond »

tucnak wrote: post #95
maxbond wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might be surprised to hear I actually do care deeply about my work and my colleagues, and have spent many a late night firefighting in production, shown up when it wasn't necessarily expected, et cetera. It's not about entitlement, is about healthy boundaries around working life. There is no virtue in burning yourself out. Your manager who tells you that you're "part of the family" is not being honest with you. W…

Nothing in any of my messages indicates that I'm condoning "burnout", or any other things that you choose to draw lines in the sand around. And yet, you keep lecturing me on values of work-life balance. I care, some of my coworkers do, too. We all know who doesn't.

> Nothing in any of my messages indicates that I'm condoning "burnout"

Actually you literally advocate for burning yourself out, you just use slightly different terminology.

> It's better to be naive and go from one corporate family to another with a caring attitude, attempting to make a difference, committing to hard work, and having your heart broken, ...

Burnout is the cumulative effect of "having your heart broken" over and over again. It's better to make a commitment you can sustain than to work yourself to the bone. It's not cynical to recognize that your employer will not return the favor.

> [Y]ou keep lecturing me...

Respectfully, you can't call me a "sorry bastard" who's "soul is being poisoned," joke about getting the sibling commenter fired for disagreeing with you, and then complain that I am the one being patronizing.

I was being sincere when I encouraged you to ask your coworkers what they thought. I think we're talking past each other and that you're filtering what I'm saying through a combative lens. I think if you heard it from someone you respected, it would make more sense.

Re: Ordered back to the office, top tech talent left instead, study finds

#98

Post by maxbond »

greenthrow wrote: post #94
tucnak wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we should take the time to get in touch with your employer, and let them know that you DON'T GIVE A FUCK, & some more about how "caring" is for pussies , or should I say greens/grifting executives.

[flagged]

Edit out swipes.

Re: Ordered back to the office, top tech talent left instead, study finds

#99

Post by maxbond »

maxbond wrote: post #97
tucnak wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing in any of my messages indicates that I'm condoning "burnout", or any other things that you choose to draw lines in the sand around. And yet, you keep lecturing me on values of work-life balance. I care, some of my coworkers do, too. We all know who doesn't.

> Nothing in any of my messages indicates that I'm condoning "burnout" Actually you literally advocate for burning yourself out, you just use slightly different terminology. > It's better to be naive and go from one corporate family to another with a caring attitude, attempting to make a difference, committing to hard work, and having your heart broken , ... Burnout is the cumulative effect of "having your heart brok…

I'll add, I do see the sibling commenter was being rude and that I wasn't sticking up for you, and I have experienced that myself and understand it's not easy to disentangle those conversations and see that I wasn't calling you childish or condoning it. It's not acceptable, and they shouldn't have done that. I could've said something in your defense, but I didn't, because I felt you had bent the conversation in that direction with your "trembling" comment. But two wrongs don't make a right and I should've said so. My apologies.

Re: Ordered back to the office, top tech talent left instead, study finds

#100

Post by carom »

celdon25 wrote: post #90
carom wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Major metro big tech, toward the senior side of things. Check out [1]. Salaries in the 200s are very realistic. 300s is senior or long tenure with stock appreciation. It is worth grinding leetcode for a few months. 1. https://levels.fyi/

Ah, thought you were referring to salary, not IOUs. I'll stick with consulting.

Common misunderstanding. RSU grants at public companies vest regularly. At Google I had no cliff and my shares vested monthly. With auto sell it was just another ~10k of cash per month. Smaller grants would vest quarterly.

FWIW I consult now and make more than I ever did at a company, so also find a niche and raise your rates.

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