If you're looking for an open-source, self-hostable, end-to-end encrypted Discord alternative, check out Spacebar. Still in development, though is promising. https://github.com/spacebarchat/spacebarchat
Or Matrix via Cinny
Discord Applying Forced Arbitration - opt-out before it is too late!
91–99 of 99 posts
Re: Discord Applying Forced Arbitration - opt-out before it is too late!
#92It really would be nice for some legislation to restore access to the justice system.
At this point I believe the only solution is a constitutional amendment, not a mere legislation, given that pro-arbitration laws/cases have been ruled as constitutional.
Re: Discord Applying Forced Arbitration - opt-out before it is too late!
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
Risky … if it’s automated, they could argue that you’re not actually making a conscious decision and/or not actually doing it yourself, claiming that it doesn’t apply or isn’t an unambiguous indication of your intent to knowingly opt out of whatever the next revision of the arbitration clause may be. It’s far more unclear how that would play out in (US) court than with a manual opt-out once per account per terms of s…
A funny argument to make when the “contract” is entirely automated, without negotiation or consideration. Such agreements should not be enforceable in the first place.
I agree that there should be more restrictions on this than there currently are in the US, but unless the composition of the US Supreme Court changes enough that they overrule their many recent arbitration-related precedents, we’re stuck with this unless and until Congress changes the law. Honestly, they’re not even legally required to allow an opt-out at all under current rulings, other than rejecting the terms of service entirely.
At least no constitutional amendment is required to fix this. These US Supreme Court rulings have been based on the Federal Arbitration Act, a regular statue, not on the Constitution (except as the source of Congress’s authority to override state law on this issue).
Re: Discord Applying Forced Arbitration - opt-out before it is too late!
#94Looks like all those laws the EU passed are doing their job because EU is exempt. Good to know that we still have a parliament and politicians that care about the common man.
Re: Discord Applying Forced Arbitration - opt-out before it is too late!
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
Forced arbitration reduced your options. You can agree to arbitration if both parties desire it when a dispute arises. One of the biggest consumer protections that a forced arbitration clause can kill is a class action lawsuit. If a corporation harms each consumer for $.30, there’s no real way to bring an individualized case over that. A class action is a viable option to hold the corporation to account.
That makes sense, thanks for the context. Though, I’ve been a part of maybe 10 class actions in my life so far, and all of them amounted to less than $50 each. I suppose they are more effectively punitive to the corp than compensatory to the aggrieved.
> I suppose they are more effectively punitive to the corp than compensatory to the aggrieved.
Generally yes. One of the whole points of a class action is that they can address harms that are de minimis to an individual, but pretty bad for a society as a whole when repeated millions of times. So, generally the harm to you was small (probably small enough that you didn’t notice, or wouldn’t have bothered fighting the corporation on your own over it), so the compensation to you is also generally small.
As a class member, you can opt out of the class, and sue the company individually, if you think you’ve been significantly damaged more tban a typical member of the class. There’s usually a proactive step you have to opt out at some point.
Re: Discord Applying Forced Arbitration - opt-out before it is too late!
#96If you're looking for an open-source, self-hostable, end-to-end encrypted Discord alternative, check out Spacebar. Still in development, though is promising. https://github.com/spacebarchat/spacebarchat
You also have https://github.com/revoltchat , but people don't care about these alternatives, sadly.
Direct link to their website:
Re: Discord Applying Forced Arbitration - opt-out before it is too late!
#97It really would be nice for some legislation to restore access to the justice system.
At this point I believe the only solution is a constitutional amendment, not a mere legislation, given that pro-arbitration laws/cases have been ruled as constitutional.
Not a lawyer, but I don’t think that’s true. There isn’t anything in the Constitution about arbitration. Congress passed an arbitration law and nothing in it prevents all this. When cases go to court, the constitution is the only thing that could override the law, but if the law gets better, more specific, adds more protections, SCOTUS must respect that, again unless the Constitution somehow applied.
A lot of SCOTUS opinions in general seem pretty clear that they wish Congress would act and spell out what they want to happen, because that sure as hell is better than running to the courts to decide everything.
Re: Discord Applying Forced Arbitration - opt-out before it is too late!
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
It makes me sad to learn that someone's education is locked behind Discord's Terms of Service and Privacy Policy.
Wait until you learn how much education is locked behind Google's Terms of Service and Privacy Policy, or Microsoft's...
Are you trying to make me cry?
Re: Discord Applying Forced Arbitration - opt-out before it is too late!
#99Me in the EU: and nothing of value was lost (since I literally can’t lose my right to sue them) When is the USA going to realise that allowing companies to behave like this shouldn’t be allowed?
How do you sue them in Europe? Can you call the US entity in an European court or they have branches in Europe that you can sue?
Discord has a branch here in Europe “Discord Netherlands B.V.”