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Jeff Geerling: Corporate Open Source Is Dead

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Re: Jeff Geerling: Corporate Open Source Is Dead

#91
post #76
post #2

HN title guidelines[0]: If the title includes the name of the site, please take it out, because the site name will be displayed after the link. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

It's weird because in this case you could also read it as "Jeff Geerling says that corporate open source is dead", which just happens to be posted on his personal blog that has a domain name which is his personal name. It's not as if it's the site that called "Jeff Geerling" after all.

The title should be as posted on the blog, it would be weird if he put Jeff Geerling there (and he didn't). Rule's the same for bloggers without their name (obviously) in the domain, e.g. Julia Evans at jvns.ca is often submitted; not with a 'Julia Evans:' prefix.

Re: Jeff Geerling: Corporate Open Source Is Dead

#92
I started (and just published) a website[1] that tries to track relicensing risks across a number of OSS projects. The current methodology looks at trademark holders, licenses, and CLA/DCO requirements. I think there's community value in educating develpers, surfacing risks, tracking when a project changes it's posture, and promoting forks.

If this sort of thing is interesting to you, I'm looking to expand the project listing with community support. I suspect the relicensing trend is on its way up.

[1] https://alexsci.com/relicensing-monitor/

Re: Jeff Geerling: Corporate Open Source Is Dead

#93
post #70
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I start all my stuff with AGPL .

Haha jokes on you. I sucked your AGPL code into my LLM and now you have to prove I'm actually using your code when it generates the same thing. Good luck with that.

Copyright laundering has never been so cheap.

Re: Jeff Geerling: Corporate Open Source Is Dead

#94
Most successful open source projects are actually backed by companies and most of those projects are of course alive and kicking. The entire fortune 500 runs on software and the most of that consists of massive amounts of open source with some sprinklings of proprietary stuff mixed in. Linux would have stayed a silly hobby project without the possibility for this.

What's dead, or rather was never really that much alive is the notion of not quite so open source projects where a single corporate entity attempts to dictate the rules and actively discourages outside contributions, and people profiting from "their" source code. As a proportion of most widely used OSS software the amount of software and the number of developers involved with it is a rounding error.

There are two main problems with corporate OSS:

1) it stifles the formation of a healthy community of outside contributors. This endangers long term success of projects. The more restrictions exist (e.g. copy right transfers or aggressively anti commercial usage licenses like AGPL), the more likely it is that would be contributors will take the hint and stay away.

2) it limits growth to the strategy, financial success, and imagination/skills of just one company. Because with projects being bottle necked on the financial success of just one company and cut of from outside help, absolutely nothing happens unless that one company pays for it.

And with finances effectively supplied by VC investors interested more in IPOs and quick exits than good software, OSS is just a buzzword that goes on the investor deck and not something they actively value or appreciate. Hence legal monstrosities like BSL that make no sense whatsoever from the point of view of nurturing a healthy community of external developers. Most VC companies of course fail. That kind of is the point. And most of their restrictively licensed software projects die along with them and don't survive the implosion of these companies. Developers move onto other things and the software gets peddled to hedge-funds or companies like IBM.

The only exception to this is properly licensed open source that can simply be forked. Oracle, Redis, Red Hat, Hashicorp, Elasticsearch, etc. found that out the hard way. The answer is not getting more proprietary about OSS software and preventing forks. The software gets forked precisely because these projects are too valuable to let it rot away behind corporate pay walls. This is not a failure of open source but actually a huge success. The software will long survive the misguided corporate shenanigans. The software and community will be fine. Those companies, possibly a lot less.

Re: Jeff Geerling: Corporate Open Source Is Dead

#95
post #88
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have a post about it, but the equation is pretty simple: good cross-platform software + good documentation + responsive development = good product. The trick is to write good software -- the license doesn't matter so much. But, making it free/libre is competitively advantageous, all else considered. Some customers have told me they would not have considered paying for a proprietary option. My project is calle…

There's nothing to stop any of your paying customers from setting up their own site and giving away (or selling for cheaper) copies of RCU, right? I'm guessing you understand that and figure the downside risk is low--small numbers, low stakes, consumer focused, good vibes?

When copying a business you have to also copy their marketing channels. Product is only half the story.

Re: Jeff Geerling: Corporate Open Source Is Dead

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I like writing software that I don't bother to monetize but allows anyone who wants to come along and use it to eat to do so. Don't give things away if you care about what happens to them afterwards. So many people completely misunderstand what open source is about.

> Don't give things away That's exactly the point I was making. My whole point was: DO NOT just give things away. That's just irrational. It brings you no profit and doesn't actually create long lasting wealth and freedom in the form of copyleft software. All it does is enable your exploitation. All it does is enrich billionaire corporations who are free to take the work of others, use it to make a killing and then l…

You cut off “if you care about what happens to them afterwards”. It’s perfectly fine for somebody to just give software away as long they’re fine that someone else will make money off it. You don’t seem to be fine with it, but others are.

Re: Jeff Geerling: Corporate Open Source Is Dead

#97

There are uses for CLAs besides rug pulls. For example, if you want to offer software as AGPL, accept community contributions, but be able to _also_ offer a non-AGPL option to paying customers (who effectively pay to be allowed to integrate the license without themselves being subject to licensing risk). Quite a few big orgs have a full ban on internal use of AGPL software so this can be very valuable. That requires…

Even just stuff like releasing a GPL'd game on Steam or consoles can have the same issue if you need to keep some parts proprietary.

Re: Jeff Geerling: Corporate Open Source Is Dead

#99
What is dead is the utopian dream that making companies whose main product is raw software, is possible to do in a sustainable way, while keeping everything open source.

There are bills to pay, donations only give so much, very few buy books from community members, consulting doesn't apply to all software, trainings even less, not everything can be a SaaS,...

Re: Jeff Geerling: Corporate Open Source Is Dead

#100

Most successful open source projects are actually backed by companies and most of those projects are of course alive and kicking. The entire fortune 500 runs on software and the most of that consists of massive amounts of open source with some sprinklings of proprietary stuff mixed in. Linux would have stayed a silly hobby project without the possibility for this. What's dead, or rather was never really that much ali…

Which hard way? None of those forks are relevant enough to matter.
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