Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

EU data shows PHEVs emit 350% more CO2 than tested values

europe.autonews.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 117 posts

Re: EU data shows PHEVs emit 350% more CO2 than tested values

#91

Post by clausz »

gruez wrote: post #87
throwaway63467 wrote: post #7

Hybrids were mostly a tax scam in my opinion. In Germany until recently you could get a 6,000-8,000 € subsidy on these cars and when leasing them through a company you got a really nice tax reduction from 1% of the list price to 0,25 %, which amounts to several thousand Euros per year as well. Not to forget the vehicle tax was drastically reduced as well. Overall mostly very affluent people bought these cars, and the…

>you got a really nice tax reduction from 1% of the list price to 0,25 %, which amounts to several thousand Euros per year as well how does a 0.75 percentage point savings amount to "several thousand Euros per year"? >Overall mostly very affluent people bought these cars, Tesla buyers tend to be affluent as well. Should we cancel EV tax credits for them as well? >and the net effect for the environment was probably ne…

When you get a company car your personal taxable income increases by 1% of the car's list price per month. Tax law assumes a 1% personal use of the car. You can avoid this tax by keeping a log book of all car rides indicating personal or business use. 1% of a $60,000 car is $7,200 per year. At a tax rate of 42% it's "several thousand Euros per year"

For EVs this tax was reduced to 0.25% to further incentivise the adoption.

Re: EU data shows PHEVs emit 350% more CO2 than tested values

#92

Post by [deleted] »

gruez wrote: post #87
throwaway63467 wrote: post #7

Hybrids were mostly a tax scam in my opinion. In Germany until recently you could get a 6,000-8,000 € subsidy on these cars and when leasing them through a company you got a really nice tax reduction from 1% of the list price to 0,25 %, which amounts to several thousand Euros per year as well. Not to forget the vehicle tax was drastically reduced as well. Overall mostly very affluent people bought these cars, and the…

>you got a really nice tax reduction from 1% of the list price to 0,25 %, which amounts to several thousand Euros per year as well how does a 0.75 percentage point savings amount to "several thousand Euros per year"? >Overall mostly very affluent people bought these cars, Tesla buyers tend to be affluent as well. Should we cancel EV tax credits for them as well? >and the net effect for the environment was probably ne…

[deleted]

Re: EU data shows PHEVs emit 350% more CO2 than tested values

#93

Post by SkyPuncher »

throwaway63467 wrote: post #7

Hybrids were mostly a tax scam in my opinion. In Germany until recently you could get a 6,000-8,000 € subsidy on these cars and when leasing them through a company you got a really nice tax reduction from 1% of the list price to 0,25 %, which amounts to several thousand Euros per year as well. Not to forget the vehicle tax was drastically reduced as well. Overall mostly very affluent people bought these cars, and the…

It absolutely helps. Even a small battery enable regenerative braking. Instead of simply losing all of your braking to heat, you capture some and use it on the next acceleration.

I have a hybrid truck. In city driving, it is twice as efficient as its non-hybrid counterpart. It’s also about 50% more efficient than our mid-sized SUV. It also has the benefit of being able to turn off the engine for an extended period of idling.

Re: EU data shows PHEVs emit 350% more CO2 than tested values

#94

Post by thereddaikon »

izacus wrote: post #38
DarkNova6 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, it depends on where you are living. While cars in urban areas are a definite luxury, not having a car is the luxury outside of cities. No amount of incentives and enhancements of public transportation will ever fix this issue for sparsely populated areas. You can try to reduce exhausts and travel distances with car, but you can't fight car ownership. My parents live in such an area and they can commute…

I don't get these kinds of arguments. Even if rural areas still use cars, reducing pollution in urban areas (the ones, you know, most populated) still brings massive improvements to everyone (if nothing else, the ruralites aren't stuck in traffic as much when they inevitably commute into cities) and has very measureable health benefits for everyone in the cities. Where does this silly idea that "let's use more public…

>Where does this silly idea that "let's use more public transport in cities" requires rural areas to not use cars come from?

From the politicians pushing it. There's only one size fits all solutions. There's never an acceptance that people can have different circumstances.

Re: EU data shows PHEVs emit 350% more CO2 than tested values

#95

Post by fredski42 »

clausz wrote: post #91
gruez wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>you got a really nice tax reduction from 1% of the list price to 0,25 %, which amounts to several thousand Euros per year as well how does a 0.75 percentage point savings amount to "several thousand Euros per year"? >Overall mostly very affluent people bought these cars, Tesla buyers tend to be affluent as well. Should we cancel EV tax credits for them as well? >and the net effect for the environment was probably ne…

When you get a company car your personal taxable income increases by 1% of the car's list price per month. Tax law assumes a 1% personal use of the car. You can avoid this tax by keeping a log book of all car rides indicating personal or business use. 1% of a $60,000 car is $7,200 per year. At a tax rate of 42% it's "several thousand Euros per year" For EVs this tax was reduced to 0.25% to further incentivise the ado…

In the Netherlands we need to add 22% of the list price to our income with the high income tax rate being 49.5%.

Re: EU data shows PHEVs emit 350% more CO2 than tested values

#96

Post by constantcrying »

klaustopher wrote: post #13
constantcrying wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That's crazy to me, gasoline is so much more expensive than electricity, why wouldn't people charge the batteries more often? Of course any sane person would want to charge their car electrically. So I can only imagine that the inability to do so is the problem. My guess would be because many people can't. In most European cities having a dedicated place to charge your car is not affordable to most people. Which is…

To me that's a really weird analogy. Nobody would think about putting a gasoline tank and pump in their garage ... There's plenty of public charging infrastructure in Europe. Fast charging on the highways, slow charging in living areas. Even many supermarkets offer fast chargers now, so that during your grocery shopping trip you can get most of your charging needs covered. There's plenty of opportunities to charge yo…

I live in a major European city. If I wanted to charge an electric car it would be at least a kilometers away and is often unavailable.

The comparison to gas is irrelevant and nonsensical since it takes minutes to fill up and gas stations are plenty. If I had an electric car I would want to charge it overnight near my home. That is not possible for me and I don't see that it is possible for many others.

>There's plenty of opportunities to charge your vehicle over night

A kilometer away and I would occupy that spot for the entire night. It is pretty obvious why I would not do that.

I don't really care about your theory crafting what I could and could not do. It is obvious that this is the reason Hybrid owners don't use their electric mode as often, since they can avoid going to great lengths to charge their car.

Re: EU data shows PHEVs emit 350% more CO2 than tested values

#97

Post by tdullien »

gruez wrote: post #84
Ringz wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you look on the actual data, it's the other way around. Is this just Russian opinion making? 1. The Greens didn't push to close the nuclear power plants alone: The phase-out of nuclear energy in Germany was first regulated in the year 2000 under the red-green federal government (Schröder I Cabinet) through a contract known as the Nuclear Consensus between the Federal Republic and various operating companies. In 20…

>> The same Germany where the "Green party" pushed to close nuclear power plants and buy more gas from the Russians. Truly clown world. > If you look on the actual data, it's the other way around. Is this just Russian opinion making? >The Greens didn't push to close the nuclear power plants alone: [...] Am I misreading your post? It looks like you're not really disagreeing with the claim that '"Green party" pushed to…

It was Merkel that ended up doing it, while the Greens were not in power.

Re: EU data shows PHEVs emit 350% more CO2 than tested values

#98

Post by HdS84 »

gruez wrote: post #84
Ringz wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you look on the actual data, it's the other way around. Is this just Russian opinion making? 1. The Greens didn't push to close the nuclear power plants alone: The phase-out of nuclear energy in Germany was first regulated in the year 2000 under the red-green federal government (Schröder I Cabinet) through a contract known as the Nuclear Consensus between the Federal Republic and various operating companies. In 20…

>> The same Germany where the "Green party" pushed to close nuclear power plants and buy more gas from the Russians. Truly clown world. > If you look on the actual data, it's the other way around. Is this just Russian opinion making? >The Greens didn't push to close the nuclear power plants alone: [...] Am I misreading your post? It looks like you're not really disagreeing with the claim that '"Green party" pushed to…

What's important for this dialog is time. The Schröder 1 and the Merkel decision are decades old. Would it have been better to keep a health nuclear industry going? Yes, probably. But that was killed for good with 2011 reversal (Merkel, not Greens...). And even that would have been of questionable value because there would have been no new construction. The red-green-yellow government in 2022 had a few remaining nuclears going but keeping them online would have been difficult and costly. So there was no real choice.

The real energy politics failure happened mostly under Merkel , but the greens are sooooo bad. Yes, ofc - it boiled over in 2021/2022 but we warned Merkel did not bother to set the necessary goals in the decades prior. Kinda difficult to built new solar and wind energy quickly when your predecessor intentionally crippled that.

Re: EU data shows PHEVs emit 350% more CO2 than tested values

#99

Post by ImJamal »

tdullien wrote: post #97
gruez wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> The same Germany where the "Green party" pushed to close nuclear power plants and buy more gas from the Russians. Truly clown world. > If you look on the actual data, it's the other way around. Is this just Russian opinion making? >The Greens didn't push to close the nuclear power plants alone: [...] Am I misreading your post? It looks like you're not really disagreeing with the claim that '"Green party" pushed to…

It was Merkel that ended up doing it, while the Greens were not in power.

Remind me who shut down the Stade Nuclear Power Plant in 2003 and the Obrigheim Nuclear Power Plant in 2005.

Re: EU data shows PHEVs emit 350% more CO2 than tested values

#100

Post by thereddaikon »

Ringz wrote: post #83
thereddaikon wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same Germany where the "Green party" pushed to close nuclear power plants and buy more gas from the Russians. Truly clown world.

If you look on the actual data, it's the other way around. Is this just Russian opinion making? 1. The Greens didn't push to close the nuclear power plants alone: The phase-out of nuclear energy in Germany was first regulated in the year 2000 under the red-green federal government (Schröder I Cabinet) through a contract known as the Nuclear Consensus between the Federal Republic and various operating companies. In 20…

>Is this just Russian opinion making? uhh my comment is objectively anti russian and accuses the greens of playing into their hands.

And I don't see how your comment refutes what I said. If anything it makes the case that not just the greens are anti nuclear but Germans in general have lost the plot and gone anti nuclear. Probably not the point you wanted to make, but there it is.

Post reply on HN