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Cloudflare R2 IA storage tier

blog.cloudflare.com

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Re: Cloudflare R2 IA storage tier

#91

Post by everforward »

tootie wrote: post #69
everforward wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cloudflare practically has a stranglehold on the modern Internet. I would bet money they would be immediately profitable if they killed their free tier. There aren't that many competitors, and I don't know if they've got the spare capacity to absorb all the exodus. I'm not so sure about Backblaze. I don't even think they're the biggest player in that space (AWS is, I would guess). I would guess most people could migr…

I don't see how Cloudflare has a stranglehold. They've captured the bottom of the market by having low, low introductory prices and turnkey security. They have tons of huge and small competitors though. They have far less revenue than Akamai.

I went to go look at Akamai's site, and I don't think either party is interested in that transaction.

Akamai doesn't look like the kind of company that wants to deal with 3,000,000 tiny accounts, and I don't think the customers will be happy with the service they get.

I guess to put it another way, do you use Cloudflare currently? If they made the free tier $5-$10/month for as many sites as you want, would you pay them or put in the effort to migrate?

I think I've got 2 sites I actually care about enough to want a CDN and DDoS protection. I would probably just pay up. I'm sure I could go somewhere else for free, but my Cloudflare setup works and I don't want to have to redo my Let's Encrypt wildcard.

Re: Cloudflare R2 IA storage tier

#92

Post by godelski »

halfcat wrote: post #83
godelski wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really believe there's a missing market. I think there would be big business in building servers for homes. Where you prioritize low power usage and low noise, and do not need blazing speeds or frequent/high access. Cloud is great, but some things should still be stored at home. Home NAS systems are a bit odd and difficult to expand (nowhere near what a rack is). My argument would be that this would be helpful with…

Servers still fail, regardless of how much redundancy you build in. Especially in a home, where kids spill a gallon of fruit juice and don’t think to tell anyone until 2 days later, pets knock things off tables, fires happen, power outages happen, theft happens, and so on. There still needs to be a plan for when the server is gone. So, buy two home servers and run them in different locations? Back to cloud? Or what’s…

I'm not sure what your argument is. Yes? Is not the standard suggestion 3 copies and one off site? And consider that the post is about low egress storage. And what, you're going to tell me that business people don't want to sell more things?

Re: Cloudflare R2 IA storage tier

#93

Post by freedomben »

jjtheblunt wrote: post #86
freedomben wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah it can get pretty ridiculous. Fortunately over time things tend to even out, but for whatever reason a lot of early HN participants downvote everything. My theory is that the people who would downvote a question like this one are the people who go around reading passive aggression in every little thing. Possibly people that assume every question is secretly an agenda to propagate an opinion they disagree with, a…

Yep, but i have been here long and the non-contributing downvote phenomenon seemed to me to start when HN got more widespread participation. How did you figure out the conversation sniping to be earlier members?

Ah thank you, I must clarify! I was terribly and unintentionally ambiguous earlier.

I didn't mean earlier members as in people who joined HN in the early years, rather I meant the people who tend to react and comment within maybe the first 30 minutes after a post/comment.

I actually find the early members (as in the early 2010s and before) to be among the best. I have no idea if they are downvoters or not, but some of my favorite conversations on HN have been with these users.

As far as sourcing, definitely take with a big grain of salt because this is also purely anecdata that I've noticed from spending way too much time on HN, both repeatedly having my own comments downvoted initially while (usually) rising up over time, and observing the same phenomenon on many other people's comments.

Re: Cloudflare R2 IA storage tier

#94

Post by jjtheblunt »

freedomben wrote: post #93
jjtheblunt wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, but i have been here long and the non-contributing downvote phenomenon seemed to me to start when HN got more widespread participation. How did you figure out the conversation sniping to be earlier members?

Ah thank you, I must clarify! I was terribly and unintentionally ambiguous earlier. I didn't mean earlier members as in people who joined HN in the early years, rather I meant the people who tend to react and comment within maybe the first 30 minutes after a post/comment. I actually find the early members (as in the early 2010s and before) to be among the best. I have no idea if they are downvoters or not, but some o…

Oh, yes, i have noticed the same.

Re: Cloudflare R2 IA storage tier

#95

Post by kjkjadksj »

aseipp wrote: post #41
kjkjadksj wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t get over the fact how storage is still so expensive in 2024. Lowest you can get is probably $5 per tb a month from any of these companies. A new tb hdd is probably $25 today. Where does the money go, into c suite car payments?

Well, spinning rust HDDs stuck in your server have no actual parallelism and aren't highly available, replicated, etc. How much do you think 1TB of storage should cost?

Even factoring parity drives its still absurd. $55 a year per tb per life and we somehow never see depreciation in spinning rust storage prices hit these plans. If anything they get more costly over time. Why? Their overhead literally goes down every year with depreciating costs of drives and all the other hardware they currently use for their storage arrays.

Re: Cloudflare R2 IA storage tier

#96

Post by kjkjadksj »

sophacles wrote: post #51
kjkjadksj wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t get over the fact how storage is still so expensive in 2024. Lowest you can get is probably $5 per tb a month from any of these companies. A new tb hdd is probably $25 today. Where does the money go, into c suite car payments?

You're comparing apples and oranges here.... A $25/TB drive is not the only expense that $5 goes towards: * there's actually probably 2 or more HDs holding that TB, since the business is promising that the data won't be lost * theres the computer(s) that hold that HD. * theres the electicity, bandwidth and space rental costs for those computers * theres the cost of employees to make sure that the computers keep runni…

I am aware they are hosted on servers with mirrors or parity drives. It still makes no sense how these services seem to raise prices over time instead of seeing the savings from depreciating storage and hardware costs passed to the consumer, unless you realize they are squeezing you.

Re: Cloudflare R2 IA storage tier

#97

Post by [deleted] »

ddorian43 wrote: post #90
_cenw wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're on triple redundancy Ceph as far as I know, not geo redundant, but at that price you can buy one in Germany and one in Finland and still come out cheaper than B2. You also only get a very locked down shell.

It's not CEPH. Some type of raid: https://docs.hetzner.com/robot/storage-box/general/#reliabil...

[deleted]

Re: Cloudflare R2 IA storage tier

#98

Post by _cenw »

ddorian43 wrote: post #90
_cenw wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're on triple redundancy Ceph as far as I know, not geo redundant, but at that price you can buy one in Germany and one in Finland and still come out cheaper than B2. You also only get a very locked down shell.

It's not CEPH. Some type of raid: https://docs.hetzner.com/robot/storage-box/general/#reliabil...

From Hetzner's snapshot data loss email two years ago:

"The snapshot contents are distributed over multiple internal servers and data is stored in a way that allows up to two separate disks to fail without impacting data integrity. This means the snapshot can still be accessed, even if two disks fail at the same time."

Re: Cloudflare R2 IA storage tier

#99

Post by InvaderFizz »

jgrahamc wrote: post #87
InvaderFizz wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few jobs ago I was looking at switching from CloudFront to CloudFlare. I was basically told to come back when I have real money to spend. They essentially said that they don't even want to work with me and my $3k/month cloudfront bill, they start at $5k.

Who told you this? I'd love to see that email exchange (jgc @ cloudflare).

Unfortunately that email exchange is in the corporate archive of a company I have not worked for since 2021.

Re: Cloudflare R2 IA storage tier

#100

Post by tills13 »

SahAssar wrote: post #64
tills13 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally, we have found R2 to be nearly half as slow to respond as the same request to S3 _proxied through Cloudflare_. So... something isn't right here. Maybe a mechanical turk where a live human is fetching the object using Windows Explorer behind the scenes?

Did you mean "half as fast"? The way you worded it sounds like you mean to say that s3 is faster, but it says that r2 is twice as fast as s3.

Apologies, yes. Half as fast. S3 was typically around 20-40ms, R2 was typically around 60-80ms iirc
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