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macOS Sonoma 14.4 might break Java on your machine

appleinsider.com

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Re: macOS Sonoma 14.4 might break Java on your machine

#91

Post by okamiueru »

baq wrote: post #28

Been saying this for as long as I’ve been using macOS: it is not a developer friendly OS and am close to the conclusion that this reputation is a psy-op. Yeah it’s pretty, it mostly works when the box is first turned on and the hardware is unmatched but macOS itself is actually subpar. QA seems second tier, things you’d except from other OSes like, I don’t know, using a third party second display are just bad experie…

MacOS has bugs and inconsistencies everywhere. Some are bugs, some are inconsistent UX, only a few of them are "well... I just don't like it". An example: you cannot right click app-icons in the Docker in the mission control overview.

The list of specific annoyances and bugs is likely in the 3 digits by now, and I've only used it for half a year.

The worst of all was getting the M2 soft-bricked by an update, because I had changed the display frame rate to 60Hz, because the tween duration when moving between desktops was for some reason tied to this refresh rate. About 2 second tween duration on 120 Hz until input control, and one second on 60 Hz. Impressive for such a thing to not be picked up by QA.

Re: macOS Sonoma 14.4 might break Java on your machine

#92

Post by przemelek »

sp1rit wrote: post #61
karolist wrote: post #15

> As a normal part of the just-in-time compile and execute cycle, processes running on macOS may access memory in protected memory regions. Prior to the macOS 14.4 update, in certain circumstances, the macOS kernel would respond to these protected memory accesses by sending a signal, SIGBUS or SIGSEGV, to the process. > With macOS 14.4, when a thread is operating in the write mode, if a memory access to a protected m…

>> As a normal part of the just-in-time compile and execute cycle This means a workaround is running java with -Djava.compiler=NONE, no?

I was thinking more about -Xint, or in Docker, or x86 JVM, but my guess is that somebody already tested it ;-) Other thing is that one of developers in my team who is on M1 and 14.4 is able to run Java app, so...

Re: macOS Sonoma 14.4 might break Java on your machine

#93

Post by addicted »

baq wrote: post #28

Been saying this for as long as I’ve been using macOS: it is not a developer friendly OS and am close to the conclusion that this reputation is a psy-op. Yeah it’s pretty, it mostly works when the box is first turned on and the hardware is unmatched but macOS itself is actually subpar. QA seems second tier, things you’d except from other OSes like, I don’t know, using a third party second display are just bad experie…

The reputation was well earned when Linux on the Desktop wasn’t as easy or friendly as it is today and was severely lacking good quality GUI applications.

Windows was a virus laden mess and was not useful for running Linux apps.

And besides the flaws of the other OS’es, OS X had some of the nicest window management features (Expose from the Snow Leopard is still my favorite window switcher), was a UNIX and had a thriving indie development scene (which was basically killed by iOS…).

Since then OSX has completely languished as a developer platform. It’s not clear what you can do today as a developer to make your life easier that you could not a decade ago on OSX. And in fact, the destruction of the indie dev scene, combined with the many heavy handed security restrictions of dubious benefit have made it a far worse dev environment than a decade and a half ago.

Further, Linux DEs have greatly improved and Windows now supports Linux development.

The Mac ecosystem has seen a complete turnaround where you now buy a Mac for the hardware, not the software.

Re: macOS Sonoma 14.4 might break Java on your machine

#94

Post by usrusr »

grodriguez100 wrote: post #43

“The problem does not affect most typical Mac users, as Java was deprecated for the Mac back in 2012.” This is misleading. What was deprecated was the browser Java plug-in distributed by Apple. That’s very different from “deprecating Java”.

Didn't they have their own JVM distribution back in the Sun days? The sarcastic take would be on MacOS, third party software is deprecated, period.

Re: macOS Sonoma 14.4 might break Java on your machine

#95

Post by xcv123 »

t-sauer wrote: post #62
tchbnl wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple doesn't EOL the last OS version when the latest comes out. I think they mean they wait a few months to make sure all the issues have been worked out.

But that only works if you stick to old majors. At this point Sonoma is out for almost 6 months, so even if you waited a few months to upgrade to Sonoma you are out of luck now. You are either stuck on 14.3 without security fixes or you upgrade to 14.4.

What's the difference? Wait a month (or whatever) before upgrading to the next major or minor release.

My work laptop is stuck on 14.3 for a few weeks until they fix this issue. So what? Actual security risk is practically zero. Whereas if I update to 14.4 today the risk is that I can't do my job.

Re: macOS Sonoma 14.4 might break Java on your machine

#96

Post by addicted »

nottorp wrote: post #90
baq wrote: post #28

Been saying this for as long as I’ve been using macOS: it is not a developer friendly OS and am close to the conclusion that this reputation is a psy-op. Yeah it’s pretty, it mostly works when the box is first turned on and the hardware is unmatched but macOS itself is actually subpar. QA seems second tier, things you’d except from other OSes like, I don’t know, using a third party second display are just bad experie…

That's a definite it depends. Macs are finnicky with hardware (but hdmi sucks by definition, they think you bought the cable and monitor to pirate movies and not to do some work). However the GUI actually works and if you spend a week on windows 10+ you'll remember why people buy Mac OS. Personally I have a Mac for stuff that requires a GUI and a headless linux box that I ssh into. And I switched to Macs from ... Lin…

Windows 10 (can’t speak for 11…I haven’t upgraded) with a lot of the animations etc turned off is a far superior developer experience than macOS.

macOS is just so clunky. It tried to be so smooth all the time but just ends up being annoying.

Re: macOS Sonoma 14.4 might break Java on your machine

#97

Post by usrusr »

Symbiote wrote: post #47
cataphract wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they're confusing the Java plugin for websites with the normal Java runtime.

Exactly. We shouldn't promote such poor quality journalism.

Poor quality, yes, but journalism on blog.oracle.com?

Re: macOS Sonoma 14.4 might break Java on your machine

#98

Post by surgical_fire »

EthicalSimilar wrote: post #29
baq wrote: post #28

Been saying this for as long as I’ve been using macOS: it is not a developer friendly OS and am close to the conclusion that this reputation is a psy-op. Yeah it’s pretty, it mostly works when the box is first turned on and the hardware is unmatched but macOS itself is actually subpar. QA seems second tier, things you’d except from other OSes like, I don’t know, using a third party second display are just bad experie…

I’ve been using macOS as my primary development environment for the past ~4 years and have loved every minute of it. I haven’t run into any of the issues you’ve mentioned thankfully, and docker works absolutely fine for my use cases. I can’t see myself ever switching for any reason.

I've been using MacOS for about 5 years, as it is the machine issued by my workplace. And I hate it. It's so much worse than Linux that it's not even a joke. Hell, I think I would have preferred to work on Windows with WSL than this crap.

The hardware is not even that good. I presume people like it because it looks slick and serves as a status symbol.

Re: macOS Sonoma 14.4 might break Java on your machine

#99

Post by nottorp »

addicted wrote: post #96
nottorp wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a definite it depends. Macs are finnicky with hardware (but hdmi sucks by definition, they think you bought the cable and monitor to pirate movies and not to do some work). However the GUI actually works and if you spend a week on windows 10+ you'll remember why people buy Mac OS. Personally I have a Mac for stuff that requires a GUI and a headless linux box that I ssh into. And I switched to Macs from ... Lin…

Windows 10 (can’t speak for 11…I haven’t upgraded) with a lot of the animations etc turned off is a far superior developer experience than macOS. macOS is just so clunky. It tried to be so smooth all the time but just ends up being annoying.

I just set up a windows box for some development last week. Spent 2-3 hours per day on it (on work not setup).

So far I haven't managed to turn off the firewall scare popups, I did manage to remove that crap in the task bar that pops up the weather and selected news covering half the screen if you hover in the wrong place, I may or may not have turned off the OneDrive upsell, and I also got a full screen message to upgrade to 11 for free when booting once.

Great user experience overall. And don't tell me I can spend another week to turn those off, is Microsoft paying for that wasted time?

Re: macOS Sonoma 14.4 might break Java on your machine

#100

Post by grodriguez100 »

usrusr wrote: post #94
grodriguez100 wrote: post #43

“The problem does not affect most typical Mac users, as Java was deprecated for the Mac back in 2012.” This is misleading. What was deprecated was the browser Java plug-in distributed by Apple. That’s very different from “deprecating Java”.

Didn't they have their own JVM distribution back in the Sun days? The sarcastic take would be on MacOS, third party software is deprecated, period.

Yes, Apple had their own Java runtime in the past, but this was discontinued. I think Mojave (10.14) was the first version without official Java support from Apple.
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