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Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

nytimes.com

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Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

#91

Post by themaninthedark »

fn-mote wrote: post #2

> In recent years, automakers [...] have started offering optional features in their connected-car apps that rate people’s driving. At least the programs are (currently) opt-in. This amusing anecdote is buried: > One driver lamented having data collected during a “track day,” while testing out the Corvette’s limits on a professional racetrack. > [...] he was denied auto insurance by seven companies [...]

There is another commenter further up that says they had to opt out on a Toyota and the rep acted like he didn't know until the opt out text was read verbatim.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39667268

Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

#92

Post by schreiaj »

everforward wrote: post #79
mycologos wrote: post #59

I think there are a few reasons to be mad about this, but some are better than others: 1) People don't understand they're being monitored. I think this is a good reason to be mad. People should have some understanding of the agreements they make. It's part of being a functional adult in the world. It's also annoying that the companies keep spinning this as a tool to improve your driving, when it's clearly an attempt…

Location can be relevant. There is both a quarter mile drag strip by me and a circuit lap by me that both allow you to drive your own car on them. Both styles of driving would be... Alarming from a telemetry perspective. Afaik neither is covered by regular auto insurance anyways so it really shouldn't factor into rates. There's specific racing insurance, but it's quite pricey. Not that I want them sharing location da…

It’s also difficult to determine if someone is speeding from data.

For example the road I live off of according to the speed limit the car thinks goes from 40 to 65 to 25 to 65 to 40 in about a 4 mile span. Spoiler it does not. It is 40 the whole way. But according to the car I am either going 25 under, 15 over, or exactly the right speed.

(And the 65 section in the middle? Blind corner. Idk where it’s getting its data but it is very very wrong)

Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

#93

Post by bell-cot »

themaninthedark wrote: post #90
bell-cot wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Stasi didn't add anything to the GDP of the GDR, either. That wasn't the point then, and it isn't now.

My point is that companies start to collect data; either for debug purposes or to try and better understand the customer. Then there is a lot of pressure to monetize the data. So from a consumer POV, it is better to not have anything collected.

Yes.

My quip was to make a rather negative comparison, while noting that the whole collect-and-monetize industry is a net negative for both the economy and human society.

Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

#94

Post by themaninthedark »

ceejayoz wrote: post #30
max_ wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Homomophic encryption simply means that the data is encrypted in a way that the person working with it cannot use it arbitrarily. Here is an example, I would for instance use Google Maps for Navigation but Google or any other third party would have no idea where I am going. I used it in the first company I worked for and it works beautifully. A) and B) work but they are not as effective as homomophic encryption.

Barring regulation , why would car manufacturers currently profiting off the sale of this data spend extra money voluntarily implementing something that cuts off their revenue stream?

Or why would one car manufacturer cut off a revenue stream that their competition has.

Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

#95

Post by _visgean »

max_ wrote: post #11

The problem with such issues of data misuse is that people only provide 2 solutions. a) Go off grid. Don't use The tech that these cars make. The problem with this is that it is impractical for people that use see alot of value in using this tech. b) Pass more regulation. I am a Hayekian and I believe that regulation will not help with people that know the ins & outs of the regulation, also it's doesn't stop them. It…

> I am a Hayekian and I believe that regulation will not help with people that know the ins & outs of the regulation, also it's doesn't stop them.

that is such a funny thing to say. Car industry is heavily regulated and car companies do work with the regulation. They are already regulated on safety, fuel standards, dimensions... Adding data protection into the mix makes sense.

Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

#97

Post by janice1999 »

Kon-Peki wrote: post #84
batch12 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toyota. I still had the sticker- I peeled it off and put it in the manual. The exact text is: VEHICLE DATA TRANSMISSION IS ON! Your vehicle wirelessly transmits location, driving and vehicle health data to deliver your services and for internal research and data analysis. See www.toyota[.]com/privacyvts. To disable, press vehicle's SOS button.

Prepare to be creeped out: https://www.toyota.com/privacyvts/

People seem to unaware of it:

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/feb/08/toyot...

Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

#98

Post by toast0 »

xnx wrote: post #15

As a safe driver, I like the idea of dangerous drivers paying more. There's no good reason the participants should not be aware they are under surveillance though. Sidenote: I wonder if they've considered close follow distance or frequent lane changes as a risk factor.

The idea of dangerous drivers paying more for insurance is fine. It's probably better than the idea of drivers with bad credit paying more for insurance.

The problem is in how is dangerous driving assessed. Simple to apply rules lack the understanding of conditions. Telematics are going to be low bandwidth data, almost certainly without enough data to form an understanding of conditions.

Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

#99

Post by janice1999 »

xnx wrote: post #15

As a safe driver, I like the idea of dangerous drivers paying more. There's no good reason the participants should not be aware they are under surveillance though. Sidenote: I wonder if they've considered close follow distance or frequent lane changes as a risk factor.

The problem though is that inevitably they will eventually automatically label anyone who does not "consent" to total surveillance as risky or dangerous.

Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

#100

Post by janice1999 »

max_ wrote: post #11

The problem with such issues of data misuse is that people only provide 2 solutions. a) Go off grid. Don't use The tech that these cars make. The problem with this is that it is impractical for people that use see alot of value in using this tech. b) Pass more regulation. I am a Hayekian and I believe that regulation will not help with people that know the ins & outs of the regulation, also it's doesn't stop them. It…

> I am a Hayekian and I believe that regulation will not help with people that know the ins & outs of the regulation, also it's doesn't stop them.

I work in the automotive industry. It is very heavily regulated. The majority of people have never heard of ISO 26262 but it's keeping billions of people safe every day. Data privacy can work in the same way.

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