Live data from Hacker News

New York Times is targeting Wordle clones with DMCA takedowns

theverge.com

91–100 of 117 posts

Re: New York Times is targeting Wordle clones with DMCA takedowns

#91
Hey NYT I hope you’ll enjoy my game called QWERTL https://qwertl.com

Or my other game https://redactle.net which sounds ever so similar to wordle so you had better send your lawyers.

Or what about https://memorycardsgame.com - I mean it has a grid layout so surely that must be copyrighted too.

I will file any complaints into my computers /dev/null disk.

Re: New York Times is targeting Wordle clones with DMCA takedowns

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No you can't.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20070226648A1/en https://patents.google.com/patent/US10369470B2/en You most certainly can

https://patents.google.com/patent/US11786805B1/en

This one refers to Wordle in the spec (which implies it's well known) and cites 5 other patents. Not knowing how Wordle works, I wouldn't speculate as to their chances of getting a patent, but NYT seems to be pursuing a copyright approach for now.

Re: New York Times is targeting Wordle clones with DMCA takedowns

#93
post #2

> In a statement to 404 Media, the Times said: > > The Times has no issue with individuals creating similar word games that do not infringe The Times’s “Wordle” trademarks or copyrighted gameplay. Can you really copyright “gameplay”? This seems like pointless bullying by the Times, who is probably just upset they haven’t got a positive ROI on their acquisition of a free game.

Specially since Wordle's gameplay is a straight copy of Bulls and Cows: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulls_and_cows

Except wordle provides positional information.

Re: New York Times is targeting Wordle clones with DMCA takedowns

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Semantle is nice but very difficult. You have unlimited tries, though.

Just tried Semantle, which I hadn't heard of before. I don't want to spoil today's puzzle, but after getting a few hints and giving up to get the answer, I don't see any relation between the hints and the answer. (The similarity scores are word2vec cosine similarity, and that's fun to see in action, but the results make me think word2vec isn't that good.) Edit: I tried yesterday's word and that was much better. Today…

I haven't played a whole lot but sometimes it definitely makes more sense than others.

Re: New York Times is targeting Wordle clones with DMCA takedowns

#95
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt it. The existence of the words themselves is a fact, which is not copyrightable. Only their arrangement can be. Feist Publications, Inc., v. Rural Telephone Service Co., 499 U.S. 340 (1991) However, to be copyrightable, the arrangement has to be expressive, i.e., it must "possess the requisite originality because the author . . . chooses . . . in what order to place them." My strong suspicion is that Wordle's…

The selection is expressive. https://www.copyright.gov/comp3/chap300/ch300-copyrightable-... The Originality Requirement for Compilations A compilation may contain several distinct forms of authorship: • Selection authorship involved in choosing the material or data that will be included in the compilation; • Coordination authorship involved in classifying, categorizing, ordering, or grouping the material or data; an…

Indeed. The creator of wordle started with a reasonably exhaustive list of ~13000 five letter words. That list won't be copyrightable.

But the first prototype wasn't so fun, because it would often pick a word the player didn't even know existed.

So the creator (and his partner) manually classified the entire list based on if they knew the word or not; splitting the list into two groups, words which might appear as solutions and words that won't appear as solutions but will still be accepted.

This manual classification step and splitting it into two groups makes a very good argument for the wordlists meeting the criteria for copyright.

Source: https://slate.com/culture/2022/01/wordle-game-creator-wardle...

Re: New York Times is targeting Wordle clones with DMCA takedowns

#96
post #95
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The selection is expressive. https://www.copyright.gov/comp3/chap300/ch300-copyrightable-... The Originality Requirement for Compilations A compilation may contain several distinct forms of authorship: • Selection authorship involved in choosing the material or data that will be included in the compilation; • Coordination authorship involved in classifying, categorizing, ordering, or grouping the material or data; an…

Indeed. The creator of wordle started with a reasonably exhaustive list of ~13000 five letter words. That list won't be copyrightable. But the first prototype wasn't so fun, because it would often pick a word the player didn't even know existed. So the creator (and his partner) manually classified the entire list based on if they knew the word or not; splitting the list into two groups, words which might appear as so…

What's your basis for that? I'm very skeptical. Intuitively, whether a word is within the working vocabulary of a sample of the population is an objective fact, not creative expression.

Do you know of any case law to the contrary?

And, as it turns out, it was the author's girlfriend who categorized each of the words. Not the author. If there is copyright in the selection (which I doubt), NYT doesn't appear own it.

Re: New York Times is targeting Wordle clones with DMCA takedowns

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot copyright gameplay. https://www.americanbar.org/groups/intellectual_property_law... .

but you can patent it.

You can’t expect a lawyer to know the difference between copyright and patents.

Re: New York Times is targeting Wordle clones with DMCA takedowns

#98
post #8

Mechanics can't be copyrighted (unless it's MTG tap mechanic, it seems), but what is weird is apparently the projects it went against were in different languages that Wordle doesn't cover (which I think matters considering Wordle is about guessing words) and using a different name.

If you work in a field that’s built around intellectual property law, as any creative field including software is, it behooves you to be sufficiently familiar with it to understand that MTG’s tap mechanic was patented not covered by copyright.

Re: New York Times is targeting Wordle clones with DMCA takedowns

#100
post #8

Mechanics can't be copyrighted (unless it's MTG tap mechanic, it seems), but what is weird is apparently the projects it went against were in different languages that Wordle doesn't cover (which I think matters considering Wordle is about guessing words) and using a different name.

Lots of other games have the same mechanic as MTG’s tapping. But to avoid legal threats from WotC/Hasbro, most of them call it exhausting or refreshing or other similar words. I’m skeptical that there’s any valid legal claim there, but if it is more legitimate than well-funded big-corp lawyer bullying, it’s either a trademark claim or a claim that any game with a card-refresh mechanic called “tapping” must be a deriv…

Fuck the "owning" of terminology laying claim to individual words. It's utter horseshit.
Post reply on HN