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Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theater Already?

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Re: Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theater Already?

#91

Post by wyldfire »

eloisant wrote: post #84
Fervicus wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TSA is USA specific. But why are all other countries following the same security theater? Has any other country ditched it?

It's not the same level, you don't have to take off your shoes for example. In some airports (like in Haneda) you don't even have to pull anything out of your bag. Bag on the conveyor belt, yourself through the gate and you're done.

The US has "solved" this in some airports by investing in better imaging tech that doesn't require removal of laptops and the like.

Re: Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theater Already?

#92

Post by ethanbond »

deltarholamda wrote: post #42
etaioinshrdlu wrote: post #30

I'm not convinced the TSA is needed to stop terrorism, but it probably helps a good deal with protecting passengers from ordinary psychotic Americans, of which there seem to be a significant increase over the last 20 or so years.

I've watched enough YouTube videos, I don't think it's working.

Last year TSA intercepted almost seven thousand firearms at security checkpoints, 93% of which were loaded. So take all those crazy people, then add firearms into their vicinity, or a firearm into the hands of a well-meaning but panicking co-passenger now trying to "secure" a crowd of 300 people 30,000 feet in the air.

Re: Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theater Already?

#93

Post by daveguy »

J_Shelby_J wrote: post #48
feoren wrote: post #26

If you're ever wondering why something in the U.S. can't be made better, the answer is often that the existing rent-collectors must be allowed to continue collecting their rent at all costs. This is why we can't have the government file taxes on our behalf: because Intuit would no longer be collecting rent, and rent-collecting must be protected at all costs. This is why we can't have a single-payer healthcare system:…

Good comment. I'll add that one solution is to simply not fly through TSA airports. I flew JSX last weekend and security was a swab for explosives and a metal detector. It took 30 seconds. Ticket says to arrive to the airport 15 minutes before departure. I'm not sure how scalable flying out of regional airports is, but the extra $200 was worth the price for a) not burning an hour arriving and b) having a large enough…

Why stop there?

...Let them fly private!

I don't know about you, but $200 is a lot for me to pay to save an hour.

Re: Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theater Already?

#94

Post by lotsofpulp »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #28
rwmj wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or keeping public toilets gleaming clean, which seems to be the jobs program for the elderly in Japan.

No one values this work, and so it’s an identity and status issue. “Soldiers” vs janitors and people who keep the lights on. (“Support our troops”, “back the blue”, etc).

> No one values this work

No one pays for this work. Give people an appropriate salary and benefits like TSA workers get, and there will be no problem.

Also, TSA worker is negative status.

Re: Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theater Already?

#95

Post by toomuchtodo »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #94
toomuchtodo wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one values this work, and so it’s an identity and status issue. “Soldiers” vs janitors and people who keep the lights on. (“Support our troops”, “back the blue”, etc).

> No one values this work No one pays for this work. Give people an appropriate salary and benefits like TSA workers get, and there will be no problem. Also, TSA worker is negative status.

> Also, TSA worker is negative status.

Someone mentioned upthread this is a job for veterans because we won’t pay UBI or similar. It’s status enough, in some cases (“make work for veterans”.

Re: Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theater Already?

#96

Post by MandieD »

toddmorey wrote: post #52
feoren wrote: post #26

If you're ever wondering why something in the U.S. can't be made better, the answer is often that the existing rent-collectors must be allowed to continue collecting their rent at all costs. This is why we can't have the government file taxes on our behalf: because Intuit would no longer be collecting rent, and rent-collecting must be protected at all costs. This is why we can't have a single-payer healthcare system:…

question: is there another country now doing airport security better? I did a bunch of international travel a few years ago and found the process to be fairly standard. Didn’t feel as if other countries are quite so obsessed with removing shoes, but they seemed a bit more obsessed with additional carryon screening.

Security at Frankfurt this past December felt like a lighter touch and better organized than TSA in Orlando or Houston, but still attentive and likely to catch something that shouldn’t be taken onto the plane.

Re: Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theater Already?

#97

Post by denimnerd42 »

J_Shelby_J wrote: post #48
feoren wrote: post #26

If you're ever wondering why something in the U.S. can't be made better, the answer is often that the existing rent-collectors must be allowed to continue collecting their rent at all costs. This is why we can't have the government file taxes on our behalf: because Intuit would no longer be collecting rent, and rent-collecting must be protected at all costs. This is why we can't have a single-payer healthcare system:…

Good comment. I'll add that one solution is to simply not fly through TSA airports. I flew JSX last weekend and security was a swab for explosives and a metal detector. It took 30 seconds. Ticket says to arrive to the airport 15 minutes before departure. I'm not sure how scalable flying out of regional airports is, but the extra $200 was worth the price for a) not burning an hour arriving and b) having a large enough…

https://dallas.culturemap.com/news/travel/jsx-small-carriers....

JSX security advantage may not last forever

Re: Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theater Already?

#98

Post by lotsofpulp »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #95
lotsofpulp wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one values this work No one pays for this work. Give people an appropriate salary and benefits like TSA workers get, and there will be no problem. Also, TSA worker is negative status.

> Also, TSA worker is negative status. Someone mentioned upthread this is a job for veterans because we won’t pay UBI or similar. It’s status enough, in some cases (“make work for veterans”.

I don't think so, only a small portion is veterans. It's just a cheap jobs program for work that isn't really hard work and doesn't require much skill other than showing up.

https://www.tsa.gov/news/press/factsheets/tsa-numbers

>Nearly 20 percent of TSA employees are veterans or still proudly serving

Re: Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theater Already?

#99

Post by exitb »

toddmorey wrote: post #59
insane_dreamer wrote: post #20

Just stop with the stupid/useless take off your shoes, and take your laptops/ipads out of your bags, and I'm fine with the rest.

It seems most airports have stopped asking for devices and toiletries to be removed from your bag. That’s been a nice upgrade.

The ones I frequent tend to ask to remove the small liquids, but I don’t do that anyway. It almost never comes up, which somehow makes it even worse.

Re: Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theater Already?

#100

Post by c-linkage »

expazl wrote: post #22
kibwen wrote: post #5

We can stop dancing around the issue while pretending we don't understand why the TSA exists. In the aftermath of 9/11, the government has to be seen doing "something". This was the something. Then, in the following years, the TSA evolved into a welfare program for veterans, because here in the US we can't dream of just giving people money, we have to invent bullshit jobs that make society worse.

> In the aftermath of 9/11, the government has to be seen doing "something". This was the something. No, that might have been true then, but the real reason is the same that Airlines suddenly unlearned how to group people who book togehter to sit together unless they reserve booking. The security theator is expensive to run, but it's less expensive than what you make selling more expensive methods of avoiding the sec…

The more likely reason for the creation of the TSA was to prevent victims from suing airlines into oblivion for failing to provide security. The government knew that if the airlines were found responsible the entire aviation industry could collapse, so the Feds stepped in and said "it's our job" and created the TSA to make that responsibility clear.

The situation is not dissimilar to how power tool companies would not deploy SawStop technology because that would make it clear to consumers that said companies knew their products were unsafe and would expose them to millions / billions in liability claims.

https://www.aboutlawsuits.com/sawstop-boycott-lawsuit-ruling...

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