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Linux Touchpad Like MacBook Update: 2023 Progress on Smooth Scrolling

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Re: Linux Touchpad Like MacBook Update: 2023 Progress on Smooth Scrolling

#91
> We now have smooth scrolling support in popular Java library called "awt." Many Java applications use this library underneath, including IDEs such as Eclipse, IDEA or Rider.

Eclipse doesn't use AWT, but rather uses SWT, a completely separate toolkit/API. That said, it's still great to hear that this is being improved.

Re: Linux Touchpad Like MacBook Update: 2023 Progress on Smooth Scrolling

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they can put the price tag they want on it. Want they spend 100$ on a trackpad, they can, but a PC manufacturer can't Why can't they?

Because they will have a more expensive laptop with nothing to show for it on the label, and customers will buy cheaper ones with "the same specs". You can't really put "better touchpad" on a label... or can you?

Why couldn't they? Why is a trackpad different than better speakers or camera or battery runtime or having quiet fans?

Re: Linux Touchpad Like MacBook Update: 2023 Progress on Smooth Scrolling

#93
post #59

Why does this seem like such a hard problem to solve for everyone that isn’t Apple, when Apple seemingly solved the Trackpad over a decade ago? Is this it? An unknown ROI? >the highly uncertain ROI for trying to align touchpad acceleration has prevented us from proposing a system change to the default Linux settings. I can only speak for myself, but I gave up using trackpads on anything that isn’t a MacBook many year…

It is an interesting thing to think about, I have friends that use Windows that are shocked that I willingly chose to get an external trackpad when I use my Mac as desktop. Even more interesting is when I see my partner try to do something on my Mac using a trackpad, he seems... apprehensive? Like he is so afraid of doing the wrong thing and for me this trackpad has never done something I didn't want it to do. Like w…

> Even more interesting is when I see my partner try to do something on my Mac using a trackpad, he seems... apprehensive? Like he is so afraid of doing the wrong thing and for me this trackpad has never done something I didn't want it to do. Like without even thinking about it while I was re-reading this comment, I had fingers just resting on my trackpad.

I think I'll never "get" drag&drop on MacBook touchpads. Every time I try to do it, I accidentally open the file info, or the touchpad is too small to actually reach the place where I want to drop the file to. It is absolutely doing things I don't want it to do. I absolutely dread having to use the touchpad. (that applies to other laptops too, though)

Re: Linux Touchpad Like MacBook Update: 2023 Progress on Smooth Scrolling

#94
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is an interesting thing to think about, I have friends that use Windows that are shocked that I willingly chose to get an external trackpad when I use my Mac as desktop. Even more interesting is when I see my partner try to do something on my Mac using a trackpad, he seems... apprehensive? Like he is so afraid of doing the wrong thing and for me this trackpad has never done something I didn't want it to do. Like w…

> Even more interesting is when I see my partner try to do something on my Mac using a trackpad, he seems... apprehensive? Like he is so afraid of doing the wrong thing and for me this trackpad has never done something I didn't want it to do. Like without even thinking about it while I was re-reading this comment, I had fingers just resting on my trackpad. I think I'll never "get" drag&drop on MacBook touchpads. Ever…

I love drag-and-dropping to arbitrary locations in the Finder using spring-loaded folders. I think it is a bit tricky…if you don’t know the trick.

Re: Linux Touchpad Like MacBook Update: 2023 Progress on Smooth Scrolling

#95

Why does this seem like such a hard problem to solve for everyone that isn’t Apple, when Apple seemingly solved the Trackpad over a decade ago? Is this it? An unknown ROI? >the highly uncertain ROI for trying to align touchpad acceleration has prevented us from proposing a system change to the default Linux settings. I can only speak for myself, but I gave up using trackpads on anything that isn’t a MacBook many year…

It isn't... You can see this in an open source JavaScript implementation of kinetic scrolling by Apple called PastryKit[3] using a magic number momentum * 0.9. The problem is, that on modern Linux environments, there is no clear responsibility for where scroll handling code belongs. Especially Kinetic / Inertial scrolling is handled way different than in macOS. There is libinput (for handling and redirecting input ev…

Worth mentioning that before libinput, the synapse driver handled kinetic scroll very well IMO, but AIU the developers removed the device-specific coefficients and other parameters because they said it couldn't be tested and became a mess or something. I remember looking at my Linux (Wayland, gnome3) notebook in anticipation of physical pain, at which point I switched to Mac OS permanently. To this date, I still don't understand why Linux desktop developers had to throw everything away and valued their grand refactorings more than a working desktop, especially when absolutely no new desktop apps are being developed anyway, but I guess that's what you get with a "hobby" (= developer motivation rather than demand driven) OS after all.

Re: Linux Touchpad Like MacBook Update: 2023 Progress on Smooth Scrolling

#96
post #67
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been reading this kind of opinion for years, but I have always found the touchpad to be annoyingly slow under macOS. On the other hand, MacBooks are basically the only laptops with a large enough touchpad to be comfortable, I don't know if there's some other secret sauce Apple algorithm in the firmware that contributes to the experience, but to me the perfect combination is with a MacBook running Linux, which is…

I think I'll have to watch one of these people who love the Mac touchpad work. We are clearly not working the same way. Even with max speed and acceleration my MacBook air m2 touchpad feel anemic, and cumbersome for selecting text. Fwiw I also have an apple mouse, and the touch based scroll feels unpredictable, and the mouse a bit slow too.

When I select text with the trackpad, which isn't all that often, I'll usually double-click on the first word and drag, so I don't need to be very precise. Or triple-click if I need the whole paragraph. When editing text or code I almost always navigate and select using the keyboard, but I do that regardless of the pointer device I'm using.

Re: Linux Touchpad Like MacBook Update: 2023 Progress on Smooth Scrolling

#97
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I believe that the 3D Touch tech that was once in the iPhone is the same tech that is in the track pad and the Apple Watch 3D touch was only in the iphones for a few years, it was too expensive so they cut it in favor of the haptic touch they have now. The macbook trackpad is nice but honestly I prefer the old 2012 one they had with the actual physical button you could tweak the pressure of with a screwdriver. It se…

I’m sorry what You can adjust the pressing force required in software, and the glass does in fact depress under your finger. It’s cushioned - that’s how they detect pressure.

My Apple trackpads don’t click when they are powered off. It just feels like pressing a piece of glass.

Re: Linux Touchpad Like MacBook Update: 2023 Progress on Smooth Scrolling

#98
post #10

I remember this project starting. Not one single thing has changed that affects me as a result and I use Linux everywhere, daily. As far as I can tell it's a lot of small, niche work, that is almost completely immaterial to average users. Meanwhile there's no stop scroll events across the ecosystem. The single biggest win that Linux touchpad needs is stop scroll events. I'll bite my tongue on passing more judgement o…

Is this something like what Qt `QScrollerProperties::MaximumClickThroughVelocity` controls? It's not exactly an event, but a click-through would stop the scroll immediately.

Re: Linux Touchpad Like MacBook Update: 2023 Progress on Smooth Scrolling

#99
post #67
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been reading this kind of opinion for years, but I have always found the touchpad to be annoyingly slow under macOS. On the other hand, MacBooks are basically the only laptops with a large enough touchpad to be comfortable, I don't know if there's some other secret sauce Apple algorithm in the firmware that contributes to the experience, but to me the perfect combination is with a MacBook running Linux, which is…

I think I'll have to watch one of these people who love the Mac touchpad work. We are clearly not working the same way. Even with max speed and acceleration my MacBook air m2 touchpad feel anemic, and cumbersome for selecting text. Fwiw I also have an apple mouse, and the touch based scroll feels unpredictable, and the mouse a bit slow too.

I never find the speed and acceleration of the Apple Trackpads slow. Out of curiosity, how are you moving your fingers when you want the mouse to travel long distances? What I do is repetitions of the movement on same area of the trackpad , e.g. my finger never drags more than two inches of the surface. I also have tap to click disabled, and use my middle finger to move, thumb to do left click, and middle + ring finger for right click.

Re: Linux Touchpad Like MacBook Update: 2023 Progress on Smooth Scrolling

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also priorise input devices and because of that I would never get a laptop without a track point. Track pads (no matter which ones) are just such a poor choice of pointing device on a laptop, requiring one to essentially move the hand away from the keyboard. Unfortunately I'm pretty much locked into thinkpads now because all other track pointers are pretty crap. The again I can't really complain thinkpads are quite…

Trackpoints IMHO suck hard, simply because you need a lot of fine motor control to precisely operate them, the texture is bad, and a single "purring cat on closed lid" event can be enough to permanently stain the screen.

Skill issue.
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