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Facebook Co-Founder Gives Up U.S. Citizenship

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Re: Facebook Co-Founder Gives Up U.S. Citizenship

#91

Post by wilfra »

waterlesscloud wrote: post #75
wilfra wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He wont have to live in Singapore forever but that appears to be his plan at the moment. He's been there for quite awhile and seems to be loving it. It is a great place to be young, rich and good-looking. It's going to get old if he tries doing it for the rest of his life though. 10, 15, 20 years down the road is where that regret will kick in. Sure there are plenty of other great places to live than the United State…

There are places other than California to do things in tech, believe it or not. Facebook wasn't even founded in California, for example.

They re-located to California and are still based there today. What does that tell you about the point you are attempting to make?

Re: Facebook Co-Founder Gives Up U.S. Citizenship

#92

Post by wilfra »

_delirium wrote: post #71
planetguy wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cutoff is, if I recall correctly, $80K. So it doesn't apply to most workers, only the competent ones.

The foreign income exclusion is currently $92k, but even above that, in any country which has a bilateral tax treaty with the U.S. (almost all developed countries), you can deduct the foreign tax paid from U.S. tax obligations. I'm an American expat in Denmark, and from what I've back-of-the-envelope calculated, there is almost no possible circumstance in which I would owe U.S. taxes, because I get a credit for Danis…

You still owe social security and other taxes - just not federal income tax.

Re: Facebook Co-Founder Gives Up U.S. Citizenship

#93

Post by _delirium »

wilfra wrote: post #92
_delirium wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The foreign income exclusion is currently $92k, but even above that, in any country which has a bilateral tax treaty with the U.S. (almost all developed countries), you can deduct the foreign tax paid from U.S. tax obligations. I'm an American expat in Denmark, and from what I've back-of-the-envelope calculated, there is almost no possible circumstance in which I would owe U.S. taxes, because I get a credit for Danis…

You still owe social security and other taxes - just not federal income tax.

I don't, because there's a bilateral US-Denmark "totalization agreement" on social security, which ensures no double-taxation. There's a rubric determining which country you owe taxes to, depending on where you reside, what your nationality is, and who your employer is (but it's never "both"). It also takes a small step towards allowing you to shift years accumulated in one country's program to the other.

Such treaties exist with 24 countries, so of course you'd be right if I didn't live/work in one of those 24: http://www.ssa.gov/international/agreements_overview.html

Re: Facebook Co-Founder Gives Up U.S. Citizenship

#94

Post by benmccann »

lbrdn wrote: post #69

The lack of social responsibility is what erks me the most about Saverin's decision. Saverin takes full advantage of the investments and sacrifices made by countless Americans and then when the country asks for him to uphold his obligation as a citizen, he leaves to save a few percentage points. This is a tactic for small thinkers.

I feel it's really unjust the way we treat our fellow citizens living abroad. I would hate to be taxed both by the US and the country I was living in. He's already paid very a very large amount of tax for the value he generated while living in the US. Why should he pay US tax for the value he generates while living in Singapore or elsewhere?

Re: Facebook Co-Founder Gives Up U.S. Citizenship

#95

Post by wilfra »

_delirium wrote: post #93
wilfra wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You still owe social security and other taxes - just not federal income tax.

I don't, because there's a bilateral US-Denmark "totalization agreement" on social security, which ensures no double-taxation. There's a rubric determining which country you owe taxes to, depending on where you reside, what your nationality is, and who your employer is (but it's never "both"). It also takes a small step towards allowing you to shift years accumulated in one country's program to the other. Such treati…

I stand corrected. The country I lived in is indeed not on that list which is evidently why I still had to pay SS taxes.

Re: Facebook Co-Founder Gives Up U.S. Citizenship

#96

Post by _delirium »

hnwh wrote: post #80
felipe wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your assumption on #2 is not correct. Americans living abroad get a tax credit (almost $100k currently), so in practice average-income US professionals living abroad are US tax-exempt. Above that, there are many rules designed to prevent double-taxation. Also, US citizenship is not a "trap" in Eduardo's case. It was his choice to become an American citizen in the first place.

We're exempt on tax on "Earned Income" up until a certain level (and yes, there is a highly technical definition for the type of income that qualifies for this). As one of the other commenters mentioned, we still have to pay full on Social Security, Medicare, Self-Employment taxes

If you live in one of the 24 countries with a social-security totalization treaty (which is most of Europe, plus Japan and a few other countries), that's not true. I don't pay any U.S. payroll taxes as an American expatriate.

Re: Facebook Co-Founder Gives Up U.S. Citizenship

#97

Post by syedkarim »

georgieporgie wrote: post #63
planetguy wrote: post #9

US citizenship is a nasty trap from which it is extremely difficult to escape. The US is one of a very small number of countries which will happily tax its citizens on income earned overseas, thus causing them to pay double taxes on everything they earn. This has seriously bad consequences for US competitiveness, in particular: 1. It discourages competent foreign citizens from seeking US citizenship (a greencard is s…

Go to any interntional company's office in Singapore, Shanghai, Kuala Lumpur and note that it's filled with Brits, Australians, New Zealanders with very few Americans; this is why. Americans are exempt from the double-tax up to $91,400. Since I imagine most expat workers are earning under this level, I don't imagine that taxation is what's keeping Americans at home. Personally, I've found it difficult to even be cons…

Just wanted to provide a bit of additional information on the US foreign income tax exclusion: You only qualify if you are outside of the US for 330 days of 365. Otherwise you're responsible for your full tax load. http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=108276,00.html

Re: Facebook Co-Founder Gives Up U.S. Citizenship

#98

Post by syedkarim »

_delirium wrote: post #74
forinti wrote: post #55

Brazilian law says that he should have lost his Brazilian citizenship for voluntarily acquiring the US citizenship (which also requires that you renounce all others). But I guess with so much cash it won't be a problem.

Both Brazil and the US have allowed dual citizenship for some years now, so he's fine on that front.

The governments of the US might tolerate dual citizenship, or turn a blind eye towards to it, but legally speaking, it's not allowed; you can have allegiance to only the United States.

Re: Facebook Co-Founder Gives Up U.S. Citizenship

#99

Post by _delirium »

syedkarim wrote: post #98
_delirium wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both Brazil and the US have allowed dual citizenship for some years now, so he's fine on that front.

The governments of the US might tolerate dual citizenship, or turn a blind eye towards to it, but legally speaking, it's not allowed; you can have allegiance to only the United States.

Depends on what you mean by "legally speaking". The citizenship oath does require allegiance to the United States, but unlike in some countries, there is no law requiring naturalized citizens to renounce other citizenships as a condition of naturalization. So both practically speaking and legally speaking, dual citizenship is permitted.

Re: Facebook Co-Founder Gives Up U.S. Citizenship

#100

Post by darrhiggs »

briandon wrote: post #72
darrhiggs wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Singapore in not an island.

It's a state made up of 60+ islands. The largest is often called "Singapore Island": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore#Geography http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Singapore

So it's not an island
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