Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

New car buying guide: the algorithm (2021)

github.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 162 posts

Re: New car buying guide: the algorithm (2021)

#91

Post by hef19898 »

maxehmookau wrote: post #86
hef19898 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not every sales person is trying to rip you off so. That's not what sales is, despite some actually doing it. Most sales people so, are just doing their job in acquiring customers for their business. Edit: Cars need service and maintenance. Dealerships can, and in Europe do with the exception of used car dealerships, provide these services as well. And that is something Tesla is really bad at.

Ok, "ripped off" might be an unfair description. They are using manipulative techniques to extract as much profit from dealing with me as possible. I understand that it's their job. But as a consumer, I _hate_ it and therefore would consider spending more money to avoid the uncomfortable feeling dealing with a car dealership gives me. That's the value for me and I'm certainly not alone in that.

You are aware, that if someone manages to get you pay more by not having to deal with a sales person, it is them who are rippong ypu off? Quite literally at that.

Re: New car buying guide: the algorithm (2021)

#92

Post by speedgoose »

merek wrote: post #90
speedgoose wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 25 years old electric cars are not great.

You're not wrong: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1

This one too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peugeot_106#Electric_version

Re: New car buying guide: the algorithm (2021)

#93

Post by G3rn0ti »

maxehmookau wrote: post #49
llsf wrote: post #6

Car dealership in US are in their own league. Coming from Europe it is difficult to appreciate at first. But when you see headlines like: "Roma was purchased last month by Texas car dealership magnate Dan Friedkin, who is worth $4.1 billion." Yes, that a Texan car dealership buying the AS Roma (soccer team, Italian capital). When I came in US, I had no car, I saved money, went to dealership (Toyota) and pointed a use…

The UK is heading this way too, and I hate it. If you show up with cash to buy a car, you're looked at like you're crazy. They push, and push to get you to take out a loan. It no longer puts you in a better negotiating position to be a cash buyer, as they're making more money selling you finance than selling the car. For all of Tesla's failings, car dealerships will die out. Millennials and Gen Z _hate_ being sold to…

> The UK is heading this way too, and I hate it. > If you show up with cash to buy a car, you're looked at like you're crazy. They > push, and push to get you to take out a loan.

With used car dealers in Germany it's a common thing to pay in cash. At least the down payment is usually in cash. However, having payed for my used car in cash, it still makes me nervous thinking of me taking a bus to the dealership with €11k in my backpack. And prior I had to tell my Bank in advance to order enough cash for me on that day. Even if I had used my debit card, I would have needed to tell my Bank to increase the withdrawing limit.

And I think with latest EU regulations cash transactions are limited to 10k nowadays. So all in all I think it is becoming more and more inconvenient paying in cash these days even in a cash driven country like Germany. Unless either customer to dealership bank transactions become a thing, or checks return in digital form or Bitcoin's taking off I would not even know how to pay for my next car in the future. Perhaps I should get myself a Tesla and a pile of debt after all. ;)

Re: New car buying guide: the algorithm (2021)

#94

Post by [deleted] »

globular-toast wrote: post #82
jolmg wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Concerns over reliability? Some car issues can be erratic and you may not find out about them until some time later. If you buy used, there's a level of risk regarding what the car's been through with previous owners. If you have a family and/or work with a tight schedule and/or park in areas where you wouldn't like to be left stranded, you may really value reliability.

You've never heard of a brand new car going wrong? A used car that's been on the road for 10 years with a full maintenance history gives me more hope for reliability than a brand new car that hasn't had time to reveal its problems. You can always pay someone to insure you against unlikely events and they don't care at all whether the car is new or not. It's up to you to decide how much risk you want to take.

[deleted]

Re: New car buying guide: the algorithm (2021)

#95

Post by firstbabylonian »

dod9er wrote: post #89
maxehmookau wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe a cultural thing? Are you British? I don't know anyone under 40 who enjoys the process of going to a car dealership and doing the awkward dance of trying not to get ripped off. Hey, if he doesn't hate it, and gets a good deal then good for him. I just can't believe that his feeling is commonplace.

> ...who enjoys the process of going to a car dealership and doing the awkward dance of trying not to get ripped off. This. The point is, once you are old enough and have heared enough success-stories of extroverts going full "Grand Bazaar"-Style... you are just frustrated if you know that you are going to loose against all these dark-patterns. There´s a reason why they can buy italian soccer-teams without really "pr…

Clean, sensible, introverted living is overrated.

There's something deeply human in the whole 'awkward dance'. Not everyone is born a great dancer, but this doesn't mean that dancing is a stupid and pointless activity.

People have been trading with one another (and often tricking or getting tricked in the process) for millennia. The 'Grand Bazaar' you evoke stands for something timeless — a promise of wealth earned with wit. In a twisted way, our American love for capitalism and these sleazy dealerships are chasing the same ancient dream.

May as well be a part of it.

Re: New car buying guide: the algorithm (2021)

#96

Post by throwup238 »

jstanley wrote: post #14
llsf wrote: post #6

Car dealership in US are in their own league. Coming from Europe it is difficult to appreciate at first. But when you see headlines like: "Roma was purchased last month by Texas car dealership magnate Dan Friedkin, who is worth $4.1 billion." Yes, that a Texan car dealership buying the AS Roma (soccer team, Italian capital). When I came in US, I had no car, I saved money, went to dealership (Toyota) and pointed a use…

> Unfortunately I had to leave the car, so they do a final inspection and prepare some papers. I came a week later to pick up the car. I wonder how he would have felt if you had to take the car and keep the money for a week before you could pay.

I did that when I purchased my used Toyota a few years ago. I told the dealer to hold the car until I could get a bank check issued by my credit union (no physical branches in my state so I had to call during business hours) and he said I could drive off that day. I was surprised but he just printed a temporary registration and a week later I drove by to finalize the paperwork after the check arrived.

It was a small dealership started by some ex-Microsoft guys and I was working at Microsoft at the time which might have had something to do with it, but it wasn’t like they verified my employment or anything. I assume they felt safe doing that considering the alternative would have been a career ending grand theft auto charge.

Re: New car buying guide: the algorithm (2021)

#97

Post by SillyUsername »

In the UK last time somebody tried the hard sell with me was around 2012. I was in a Mazda dealership for a £20K car (~$25K USD today), after 45 minutes of pressure I told them if they weren't going to give me what I'd asked (a more than fair quote for my old car) I'd buy elsewhere.

A day later I bought a better equipped Hyundai for the same price and a decent trade in. 2 days after that I get a call from the Mazda dealer asking was I still interested and they could work a better deal.

I had great pleasure in telling them I bought the Hyundai, best decision I ever made as it turned out the Mazda model I was interested in had windshield stress design defects causing them to crack and issues with the gearbox.

I still have the Hyundai and it's survived 2 accidents from people driving into me :D

Re: New car buying guide: the algorithm (2021)

#98

Post by wyclif »

glimshe wrote: post #80
llsf wrote: post #6

Car dealership in US are in their own league. Coming from Europe it is difficult to appreciate at first. But when you see headlines like: "Roma was purchased last month by Texas car dealership magnate Dan Friedkin, who is worth $4.1 billion." Yes, that a Texan car dealership buying the AS Roma (soccer team, Italian capital). When I came in US, I had no car, I saved money, went to dealership (Toyota) and pointed a use…

You can politely say no to everything they push on you, who cares about how their face looks like. I bought my car last year and while it involved a long wait (I went there in a busy day), once it was my turn it was basically a 30 minute process to buy the car without a loan.

Thank God my cantankerous old uncle was the one who taught me how to buy a car and get the OTD price and then the best price, and not my parents. Basically, he taught me to just say 'no' to almost everything, and get up and walk out if they're jerking you around. My parents are wonderful people, but they're just too polite to do something like that, and too trusting of authority figures (car salespeople like to project that they are the ones that are experts at all things involving automobiles).

Re: New car buying guide: the algorithm (2021)

#99

Post by wyclif »

throwup238 wrote: post #96
jstanley wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unfortunately I had to leave the car, so they do a final inspection and prepare some papers. I came a week later to pick up the car. I wonder how he would have felt if you had to take the car and keep the money for a week before you could pay.

I did that when I purchased my used Toyota a few years ago. I told the dealer to hold the car until I could get a bank check issued by my credit union (no physical branches in my state so I had to call during business hours) and he said I could drive off that day. I was surprised but he just printed a temporary registration and a week later I drove by to finalize the paperwork after the check arrived. It was a small…

Good salespeople excel at character judgement. They were confident that you are not the type that steals cars. But like the author says, by doing the entire transaction over email instead of in-person, you take a big part of their advantage away.

Re: New car buying guide: the algorithm (2021)

#100

Post by fransje26 »

hef19898 wrote: post #38
kylehotchkiss wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me this seems to reflect a lifestyle where certain people always want a shiny BMW or Mercedes and have to trade up every 2-3 years to maintain it. Seems like leasing would be a better approach though.

I love leasing! Well, not to lease myself, but the cars returned from a 2-4 year leasing contract are usually great value to buy used directly from a brand dealership, come with guarantees from the manufacturer comparable to new cars and are usually, at least, acceptable milage-wise. I talk about Germany specifically so. Once, I bought a car new. Will never do it again, used (somehwere between one and four years) is…

Somehow, I have a bad (unfounded?) association with lease drivers and car-friendliness, and I can't help but wonder how they've mistreated or abused the car mechanically in those 2-4 years. Things like full acceleration with a cold engine/turbo, and violent gear shifting and clutch abuse..

On a side-note, do you have any company or website you would recommend for ex-lease vehicles buying in Germany? Or do you simply go to your local car dealers and ask for their second-hand offerings?

Post reply on HN