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The case against caffeine

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Re: The case against caffeine

#91

Post by zemvpferreira »

richrichie wrote: post #61
alkonaut wrote: post #56

I have been drinking a lot of coffe my entire adult life. Many cups of really dark coffee. But a cup is small . And dark coffee doesn't necessarily mean loaded with caffeine. Nothing prepares you for the kind of watery-yet-caffeine-loaded juice you get at a US coffee shop. It's like they think someone would enjoy drinking a half liter hot beverage, and get half a lethal dose of caffeine. Even though I drink 5-10 cups…

It is customary for me to enjoy an espresso (occasionally two) with a bar of dark chocolate after dinner. I sleep well not much later. 100s of thousands, if not millions, do this as a matter of culture.

There is a huge blind spot in scientific caffeine research around habitual use. Every article you'll have read saying "don't drink coffee after 9am or you'll never sleep again in your life pinky promise" is based on the same type of study: Take people who drink x amount of coffee, give them a large caffeine dose at a non-habitual time, and report that they don't sleep as well that night. Which is obviously not how caffeine is used in real life.

Few things have disappointed me as much as caffeine research. If we can't get something so direct properly studied, what hope does 90% of science have?

Re: The case against caffeine

#92

Post by _ink_ »

zeta0134 wrote: post #66

I tried this! I went completely caffeine free for over a year and was... fine? But way more tired all the time, and generally having trouble focusing on tasks. In my particular case, I suspect caffeine is a self administered coping mechanism for mild ADHD tendencies, and without that I became much more sensitive to the food I was eating and my changing energy levels throughout the day. Eventually I realized I had sto…

Yeah, I have the same feeling about ADHD. I would like to go decaf, I really do. Like higher blood pressure is already enough reason for me for quitting it. But when I don't drink caffeine, I cannot focus on anything anymore. Now I haven't been tested for ADHD so I don't have access to real ADHD meds. But those come with side effects as well, so I might just stay with caffeine.

Re: The case against caffeine

#93

Post by birdman3131 »

Swizec wrote: post #24

Important to note: Not everyone has the same reaction to caffeine. And not all caffeine hits the same. What it’s mixed with matters. The caffeine in tea, for example, doesn’t have as many anxiety inducing effects because you also get a bunch of L-theanine, which has a calming effect. To the point that many modern energy drinks have started adding it to their formula. Personally I sleep fine with or without caffeine.…

I don't drink caffine on a daily basis but some weeks I do.

One of the big things for me is coffee is not a good one to drink. The caffeine in it may wake me up but it does not fix anything else so I find myself in a state that is best described as really bad morning person for the entire morning. I may be awake but I have essentially a tension at the base of my head and feel essentially hangry without the hunger.

Energy drinks (Redbull or aussie lemonade monster) wake me up much more mellow. I have thought a few times about trying to figure out what else is helping. Its not the sugar as the coffee has plenty.

Re: The case against caffeine

#94

Post by crazygringo »

OliveMate wrote: post #46

I've been on the decaf wagon for a good few years now, I can't say it helped me out with anxiety or productivity but I can echo the sentiment that I can sleep within minutes. Also not relying on caffeine to keep me going pretty much forces me to sleep at a reasonable time. The hardest thing about giving up caffeine has to be the immediate effects. Your body takes it as a massive shock and you're stuck with what feels…

> Your body takes it as a massive shock and you're stuck with what feels like a migraine for 2 days. Not fun.

Yup, but you can wean yourself off gradually and it's fine. I've done it several times -- just reducing it by 10% of your original amount each day, so you spread the effect out over 10 days. At least for me, zero headaches.

Not gonna lie though -- there is a generalized feeling of a little bit of extra "grogginess" each day. But much less than if you've come down with a cold, for example. And it's far less painful than going cold turkey.

Because you're right -- otherwise the 2-day migraine is awful.

Re: The case against caffeine

#95

Post by LeafItAlone »

alkonaut wrote: post #56

I have been drinking a lot of coffe my entire adult life. Many cups of really dark coffee. But a cup is small . And dark coffee doesn't necessarily mean loaded with caffeine. Nothing prepares you for the kind of watery-yet-caffeine-loaded juice you get at a US coffee shop. It's like they think someone would enjoy drinking a half liter hot beverage, and get half a lethal dose of caffeine. Even though I drink 5-10 cups…

> Even though I drink 5-10 cups a day, my body does not approve of even a medium (or whatever they call it - it's an insult to coffee sizes in any case) Starbucks coffee.

Ok, then exactly what the heck are you drinking? Starbucks is known for having more-than-average amounts of caffeine for their coffee compared to other chains, but it’s not _that_ much. Even a cup of black tea has more tea than 1/8 of the caffeine than any (on menu) medium coffee from Starbucks.

Re: The case against caffeine

#96

Post by InitialLastName »

Aeolun wrote: post #70
martinky24 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> After full covariate adjustment, consumption of >6 cups/day was associated with 53% higher odds of dementia compared to consumption of 1–2 cups/day So what they're saying is too much of a (good? fine? reasonable?) thing can be a bad thing? Not sure this supports a case against caffeine. You should look up what happens if someone consumes too much salt!

Sometimes it feels like if you just abstained from everything, you’d be immortal.

For sure, if you never eat or drink anything you probably won't die of cancer.

Re: The case against caffeine

#97

Post by stavros »

Aeolun wrote: post #68
pjc50 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not going to suggest that different people have different baseline biochemistry and would benefit from different things in different ways? No! That's not allowed! All health advice must fit all people, and people who don't fit the health advice shouldn't be allowed to complain about it. /sarcasm, but I've seen serious versions of this argument

I do think it would be nice if we had health advice that applied to all people.

Do at least moderate amounts of exercise fairly regularly.

Re: The case against caffeine

#98

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF »

Aeolun wrote: post #68
pjc50 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not going to suggest that different people have different baseline biochemistry and would benefit from different things in different ways? No! That's not allowed! All health advice must fit all people, and people who don't fit the health advice shouldn't be allowed to complain about it. /sarcasm, but I've seen serious versions of this argument

I do think it would be nice if we had health advice that applied to all people.

Take your tetanus shot and don’t step on rusty nails. But, per GP’s point, maybe someone doesn’t get tetanus anyway.

Re: The case against caffeine

#99

Post by bayindirh »

The user found out that he's overdosing on caffeine and cutting it late in the day.

Caffeine takes 10 hours to clear from your system. I only drink a single cup of coffee every day, at 1 PM, to clear my afternoon better.

It's not a substitute for sleep, lack of attention and your body has an upper limit. Don't abuse that limit, and you'll have none of the problems author described.

I'm telling you as a person who drank 2 liters of coffee flat, every day.

Re: The case against caffeine

#100

Post by richrichie »

crazygringo wrote: post #75
richrichie wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is customary for me to enjoy an espresso (occasionally two) with a bar of dark chocolate after dinner. I sleep well not much later. 100s of thousands, if not millions, do this as a matter of culture.

But have you ever tried stopping caffeine and then comparing your sleep? What if you think you sleep well now, but it turns out you can sleep so much better? I'm not saying you will (I'm neither pro- nor anti-caffeine). But I am saying that unless you've tried it, you have no way of knowing. And I know lots of people who have improved their sleep in various ways, who thought they were sleeping normally/fine, and then…

Good point and perhaps i might improve quality of sleep if i gave up that espresso.

But this goes deeper into philosophical discussions about human life and things like art that transcend the banal “useful/useless” prism.

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