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I Fucking Hate Jira (2022)

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Re: I Fucking Hate Jira (2022)

#91

Post by alistairSH »

dopamean wrote: post #36

Maybe I'm lucky but I have yet to work in a place where any of the organizational or project management problems could be blamed on JIRA. Not even as like a top 5 reason. I don't love many of the tools I use day-to-day but JIRA is the only one that I consistently hear and read so much vitriol about. I think there's something else people are so angry about and JIRA is getting an outsized share of the attention.

My "issue" with Jira is that it's a large, amorphous piece of enterprise software. So, there's a million ways to do things. And a million plug-ins to extend functionality.

So, when I try to do something new (to me), and I search the web, the hits are frequently outdated or related to a plug-in that I might not have access to. Makes it really difficult to do anything that isn't part of my company's baseline.

Re: I Fucking Hate Jira (2022)

#92

Post by Supermancho »

kstrauser wrote: post #60

I wrote “Jira Is a Code Smell”: https://honeypot.net/post/jira-is-a-code-smell/ Short version: Jira, in a vacuum, is neither great nor awful. It just is. But it has a complication that makes managers I want to work for dislike it, while strongly appealing to managers I don’t want to work for. That’s not universally true, I’m sure. However, it’s been my experience.

My primary problem with JIRA, is that there is very little support for dependency trees. I have tickets X and Y linked to A,B,C,D and nothing but an ad-hoc way of determining how they are related. A visualization and tool to assign places in a tree, are part of what keeps JIRA from being excellent...ok that AND the horrid UX.

Re: I Fucking Hate Jira (2022)

#93

Post by commandlinefan »

bschne wrote: post #8

I always wonder how much of this sort of thing is disdain for the specific tool vs. disdain for what working in a mid-to-large org. is like and the overhead it usually brings with it.

> disdain for the specific tool vs. disdain for what working in a mid-to-large org

You're kind of missing the problem here - it's both and neither. It's not the tool (it's awful) or the mid-to-large org itself, it's the concept that a tool as blunt as a ticketing system can meaningfully capture software development management in a useful way.

If people just treated it as a "necessary evil" time-tracking type system to make sure people were really working when they said they were, that would be irritating but not damaging. But far too many people without a lot of mental faculties actually take it completely seriously and try to put everything in it and expect meaningful results out of it. It actually ends up being worse than "nothing at all" because it _insists_ on the "only do what can be predicted and whose predictions is measured in hours" model of software development that stupid people think encapsulates creative activities.

Re: I Fucking Hate Jira (2022)

#94

Post by psunavy03 »

kagevf wrote: post #77
bschne wrote: post #8

I always wonder how much of this sort of thing is disdain for the specific tool vs. disdain for what working in a mid-to-large org. is like and the overhead it usually brings with it.

I've wondered the same thing about Microsoft Teams. Is Teams as horrible as people say, or do they just hate it because it's what they happen to use for video meetings at work? Conversely, I don't hear much hate for zoom.

Having used Teams previously, I strongly suspect the latter. I didn't find anything about it to be particularly obnoxious.

Re: I Fucking Hate Jira (2022)

#95

Post by dakial1 »

DarkNova6 wrote: post #37
bschne wrote: post #8

I always wonder how much of this sort of thing is disdain for the specific tool vs. disdain for what working in a mid-to-large org. is like and the overhead it usually brings with it.

I am thinking the exact same thing. Right now I wish I could use Jira because I‘m using this IBM equivalent tool „CCM“. CCM is so bad it’s nearly dysfunctional. Image Jira but 3 times the necessary clicks (this is not hyperbole). With Jira I can see the good intentions and how they go awry. But CCM is pure madness from top to bottom.

Even IBM is getting rid of IBM (or ex IBM) stuff. They are using outlook now, lots of teams use Jira/Trello/Confluence etc...

Re: I Fucking Hate Jira (2022)

#96

Post by kagevf »

prepend wrote: post #86
kagevf wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've wondered the same thing about Microsoft Teams. Is Teams as horrible as people say, or do they just hate it because it's what they happen to use for video meetings at work? Conversely, I don't hear much hate for zoom.

I can’t get a modal popup when someone messages me directly on teams. I have to check the list of chats for if someone has messaged me. That’s stupid and a flaw in teams. It’s a bad messaging app. It’s pretty good with meetings though.

> I can’t get a modal popup when someone messages me directly on teams

that's pretty damning ...

Re: I Fucking Hate Jira (2022)

#97

Post by rib3ye »

throwanem wrote: post #82

Jira's much more a toolbox than a tool. If you have someone with the knowledge to use what's in the toolbox and the scope to build flows that support how work is done in your org, you'll love Jira, because it'll work far better for you than anything else could. If you don't have someone like that, or if you're small enough not to want or need that yet, then you'll fucking hate Jira.

From the content of the post, it sounds Jira got used as an excuse to not interface directly with Eng. Stupid move, for any org.

I have tried all the Jira clones, and Jira is the only thing that doesn't try to turn PMing into a video game for lazy micromanagers... if you don't let it become that.

Re: I Fucking Hate Jira (2022)

#98

Post by OJFord »

itronitron wrote: post #22
bschne wrote: post #8

I always wonder how much of this sort of thing is disdain for the specific tool vs. disdain for what working in a mid-to-large org. is like and the overhead it usually brings with it.

Jira + Scrum is a soul crushing nightmare, Jira + Kanban is fine.

I agree that scrum is a soul-crushing nightmare & kanban is fine, but Jira a nightmare of a tool to use regardless of your process, IME.

Re: I Fucking Hate Jira (2022)

#99

Post by scott_w »

breather wrote: post #54
teeray wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"but once we can get our estimates right, then think of all that we can do with these burndown charts!"

Is there a context where time estimation is not employed, even implicitly?

No, never. I’ve stopped doing story points for this reason. When people want an estimate, I tend to chop things into reasonable same-sized chunks and do my best effort based on that. I prefer the NoEstimates approach and try to use past data to be a bit more “real” but it’s not always possible.

The truth is, if someone wants a time estimate, just do that and don’t beat around the bush. It’s too much effort to still be wrong.

Re: I Fucking Hate Jira (2022)

#100

Post by psunavy03 »

bschne wrote: post #8

I always wonder how much of this sort of thing is disdain for the specific tool vs. disdain for what working in a mid-to-large org. is like and the overhead it usually brings with it.

It's no different than Agile or Scrum. It's just a tool, but if you put it in the hands of morons, you're going to have a bad time. Especially when there are explicit assumptions about how you'll use it built into said tool, and then said morons ignore them.

Unfortunately in any medium-to-large org, there are a non-zero number of morons.

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