46% of Americans didn't read a book in 2023 • Hacker News Board

Re: 46% of Americans didn't read a book in 2023

#91

Post by voidfunc » Sat, Feb 10, 2024, 5:03 PM UTC

ggpsv wrote: post #64

voidfunc wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can read a quick Wikipedia article and get the gist of them pretty quickly then what's the point? If you enjoy reading that's one thing but there's not much point otherwise.

Sorry but isn't this disingenuous? Reading a summary of the book in Wikipedia/Blinkist/ChatGPT is definitely not the same as the reading book. Sure, you may grasp at the central idea or argument superficially, but to understand it fully, with its caveats and nuances, and overarching context? You can regurgitate but not assimilate.

I dont think so. For "great works" all that stuff has been covered somewhere if you really care.

You're putting way too much faith into people's intelligence (or projecting your own onto them) if you think people are picking up the nuanced bits just by reading.

Which still to the thread starts point. All of that stuff could be captured in a diff medium and to my point if it's worth capturing in the first place can be summarized and the additional stuff you're mentioning written as bullet points.

Re: 46% of Americans didn't read a book in 2023

#92

Post by TheCleric » Sat, Feb 10, 2024, 5:04 PM UTC

olddustytrail wrote: post #41

arnaudsm wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of the past yes, but what about the present and future?

Well, can you name a computer game that is a great artistic work? There are many that are good , but I can't say there are any that are on a par with, say, "The Lord of the Rings" or "War and Peace" or "1984". I'd love to hear of one that was though.

I agree with you for the most part, but I do think there are games that are truly works of art. That Dragon Cancer immediately comes to mind.

Re: 46% of Americans didn't read a book in 2023

#93

Post by lapcat » Sat, Feb 10, 2024, 5:04 PM UTC

abtinf wrote: post #16

This is the source study and a much better overview: https://today.yougov.com/entertainment/articles/48239-54-per... And that also links to the real data. Toplines: https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/econtoplines... Crosstabs: https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/econTabRepor... 49% of Americans read at least 2 books.

Yes, this is much more informative. The real separation is college degrees. Only 27% with a college degree read no books, whereas 56% with no college degree read no books. Once you get into 1+ book categories, the degree separation is much smaller.

Re: 46% of Americans didn't read a book in 2023

#94

Post by VoodooJuJu » Sat, Feb 10, 2024, 5:04 PM UTC

arnaudsm wrote: post #8

Why do we obsess so much over legacy form factors? Watching movies, listening to 2h conference talks, playing a 60h narrative videogame, and reading scientific papers in PDF may not be as noble, but they are equally meaningful to me.

Neil Postman's Amusing Ourselves to Death makes a good case about how long-form written exposition is uniquely superior to all those modern mediums.

There's too much that's either unsaid or can't be said in those other mediums. The mediums themselves even preclude any kind of depth due to their very nature, constraints, whether they be financial constraints, distribution, time-slot scarcity (as in a T.V. series), etc. Many seemingly educational works become vapid infotainment (TED Talks, History/Discovery networks, videogames can maybe be narrative, but the essence of it is always the gameplay).

I think his thesis was directed more at the importance of non-fiction expositions, but I feel it's just as applicable to works of fiction, which are oftentimes even better at expounding important ideas, philosophies, etc. than non-fiction works.

Re: 46% of Americans didn't read a book in 2023

#95

Post by marcosdumay » Sat, Feb 10, 2024, 5:06 PM UTC

Swizec wrote: post #61

arnaudsm wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of the past yes, but what about the present and future?

The depth of a book is vastly different than the 10min youtube video summarizing said book. I’ve tried both modern and legacy form factors and honestly I’m on camp book more and more as the years go on. The modern stuff feels like total fluff compared to a book, which in turn feel like total fluff compared to the academic papers it is based on. These days I would rather spend 2 hours reading a good book or paper than…

> The depth of a book is vastly different than the 10min youtube video summarizing said book.

Yep, it appears that the deepest format we have today is long-form hypertext. Often containing a few 10min videos itself.

Some people do equate those with books, but it's far from unanimous.

Re: 46% of Americans didn't read a book in 2023

#96

Post by bluejekyll » Sat, Feb 10, 2024, 5:06 PM UTC

sateesh wrote: post #78

shikshake wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading is an active skill vs watching something is more passive. There’s lots of pathways in your brain that intensive reading lights up compared to other mediums. And lots of studies show that you retain more information and building stronger informational connections when reading vs watching. No one is telling you to stop watching movies or playing video games, but being a more active participant in a leisure acti…

I do read a lot, but I don't completely agree that reading is an active skill all the time. It also depends on what one is reading. When I am reading a fast paced thriller or page turner , it doesn't feel like a very active skill/activity.

The activity in this context isn’t just that you are reading, it’s that you have to interpret what is written into scenes in your imagination. This is also required when listening to books or podcasts. This is partly why they show much of the same benefits from reading are also gained from listening to books and kids being read to by their parents.

Re: 46% of Americans didn't read a book in 2023

#97

Post by godDLL » Sat, Feb 10, 2024, 5:08 PM UTC

Eh, this is poll data, is it not? So it's more like 46% admits they did not.

You got to adjust for shame and such. I'd bet it's up to twice as much in practice, that is 92% did not actually open a book. I'll give you that 46% do not own one, that sounds reasonable.

Re: 46% of Americans didn't read a book in 2023

#98

Post by everyone » Sat, Feb 10, 2024, 5:09 PM UTC

BadHumans wrote: post #76

arnaudsm wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gaming is more active than reading. Maybe you're also thinking of imagination's involvment?

Is gaming more active than reading? I ask this as a gamer because I genuinely don't think it is. I feel more involved reading than I do gaming.

You might be playing AAA games or what I call "film-games" in that case .. Good games for me are extremely player driven, the player has total volition and is free to plot, plan, use their imagination, come up with their own original plan of action and implement it. Good examples of that are Minecraft and Kerbal Space Program.

Player driven games like that are actually making the best use the medium and it's special quality of interactivity. Film-games really want to be films and are trying to awkwardly cram elements of the medium of drama into the medium of games which is really gonna hurt the end result, even if they do stellar work, they are starting from a huge disadvantage by working against their chosen medium.

Re: 46% of Americans didn't read a book in 2023

#99

Post by mattlondon » Sat, Feb 10, 2024, 5:09 PM UTC

fifilura wrote: post #86

maximus-decimus wrote: post #73

I have a hard time believing 54% did read a book. 18% of the U.S. population is functionally illiterate, and I don't know for you, I really don't feel like reading a book after I work the whole day at a computer.

Sadly, I agree with you. Between work and kids it just has to go. I am also blessed with no sleeping problems which means that I fall asleep the moment i go to bed. I try to read at least one book per year during vacation. I read so much when I was younger. I am not certain I will get the habit back when I get older.

Same.

Can't say I miss it, either.

Reading a book at this stage in my life (busy with kids) feels self-indulgent and selfish.

Re: 46% of Americans didn't read a book in 2023

#100

Post by ModernMech » Sat, Feb 10, 2024, 5:09 PM UTC

bluejekyll wrote: post #96

sateesh wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do read a lot, but I don't completely agree that reading is an active skill all the time. It also depends on what one is reading. When I am reading a fast paced thriller or page turner , it doesn't feel like a very active skill/activity.

The activity in this context isn’t just that you are reading, it’s that you have to interpret what is written into scenes in your imagination. This is also required when listening to books or podcasts. This is partly why they show much of the same benefits from reading are also gained from listening to books and kids being read to by their parents.

What about for people who don't have an imagination? Is there no difference between watching a movie and listening to an audiobook for them?