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Deno in 2023

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Re: Deno in 2023

#91

Post by user3939382 »

ogoffart wrote: post #42

I'm interrested in the WebGPU feature. With Slint [1] we're working on a framework which allow to make a desktop GUI in Javascript/Typescript, without bringing a browser/webview. Currently, we do it by using binaries through napi-rs so we can bring in a window using the platform native API. And then we do some hack to merge the event loops. But if Deno supports bringing up a window directly, this means we can just sh…

I totally get the idea of bringing JS into new environments because it is so ubiquitous. On the other hand, I hate the language and wish we could replace it in the browser, the opposite direction. I'd be much happier with ClojureScript or PureScript or something being the standard with the ecosystem to go with it.

Re: Deno in 2023

#92

Post by matthewcford »

globalise83 wrote: post #32
msoad wrote: post #18

If Deno is looking for more growth they should make it super easy to run Next.js with it

Deno has also created a Next.js competitor, Fresh. I found it a few weeks ago and am starting to go through the docs, looks like a good overall concept. https://fresh.deno.dev/

Fresh is quite new imo it's not quite ready for a large project

Re: Deno in 2023

#93

Post by dns_snek »

ijustlovemath wrote: post #54
dingdingdang wrote: post #36

Would love to see the compile situation fixed - the generated executables are ~90MB+ at this stage and do now allow compression without erroring out. Deploying ala Golang is not feasible at that level but could well be down the line if this dev branch is picked up again! The exe output grew from from ~50MB to plus ~90MB from 2021 to 2024: https://github.com/denoland/deno/discussions/9811 which mean Deno is worse than…

I'm not sure what your requirements are, but I've had a good amount of success with converting Node.js libraries to native libraries by embedding a CommonJS module into the binary, then running the actual code through QuickJS. Much smaller binaries. If you really are pressed for space, you could use upx, or store 7z compressed code and embed the 7z library to decompress before passing it along to QuickJS. Here's a pr…

Isn't QuickJS order(s) of magnitude slower than V8? That doesn't seem like a practical tradeoff to make outside of embedded.

Re: Deno in 2023

#94

Post by kybishop »

user3939382 wrote: post #91
ogoffart wrote: post #42

I'm interrested in the WebGPU feature. With Slint [1] we're working on a framework which allow to make a desktop GUI in Javascript/Typescript, without bringing a browser/webview. Currently, we do it by using binaries through napi-rs so we can bring in a window using the platform native API. And then we do some hack to merge the event loops. But if Deno supports bringing up a window directly, this means we can just sh…

I totally get the idea of bringing JS into new environments because it is so ubiquitous. On the other hand, I hate the language and wish we could replace it in the browser, the opposite direction. I'd be much happier with ClojureScript or PureScript or something being the standard with the ecosystem to go with it.

Typescript takes away a significant amount of the pain for me; the only hold up after that was getting an environment set up to compile it. Deno supporting typescript without any configuration is incredible.

Re: Deno in 2023

#95

Post by themerone »

CyberDildonics wrote: post #84
ogoffart wrote: post #42

I'm interrested in the WebGPU feature. With Slint [1] we're working on a framework which allow to make a desktop GUI in Javascript/Typescript, without bringing a browser/webview. Currently, we do it by using binaries through napi-rs so we can bring in a window using the platform native API. And then we do some hack to merge the event loops. But if Deno supports bringing up a window directly, this means we can just sh…

This doesn't really seem related, it seems like you're saying "maybe we will use this, here is a link to our commercial GUI library". Also why would you want to make a GUI even more bloated by integrating a browser to get webgpu and webasm (and why webgpu instead of just webGL?). That might be easy for library makers but why would someone want a giant library to make a GUI when they already have electron if they don'…

They are talking about using webgpu for rendering to screen without going through a browser.

Webgpu and wasm without a web browser would be a nice way to distribute portable sandboxed code.

The reason for Webgpu is that it it has semantics closer to modern modern apis like Metal or Direct X.

Re: Deno in 2023

#96

Post by surajrmal »

ecmascript wrote: post #70
dingdingdang wrote: post #36

Would love to see the compile situation fixed - the generated executables are ~90MB+ at this stage and do now allow compression without erroring out. Deploying ala Golang is not feasible at that level but could well be down the line if this dev branch is picked up again! The exe output grew from from ~50MB to plus ~90MB from 2021 to 2024: https://github.com/denoland/deno/discussions/9811 which mean Deno is worse than…

When I download a modern game it's like 700GB so I donno why people complain about 100mb self contained deploys for javascript. Most of it is the international libraries anyway so. I find it pretty ridicolous since I go to a website today and it's at least 15MB each time I refresh but 100MB on the server is a problem? Dude cmon.

This is whataboutism. Different sizes are acceptable for different people based on context. I worry about 10s of kilobytes for things I work on for instance.

Re: Deno in 2023

#97

Post by pachico »

nonethewiser wrote: post #88
pachico wrote: post #68

I'm not a big fan of JavaScript but I admit I stayed away from it because I dislike nodejs and npm terribly. I was forced to start coding again in JS some weeks ago and I wanted to try Deno. I must say it's been a very smooth and fast experience so far. Very well done!

Can you comment on what you prefer about it? I find npm/js pretty smooth and the rough edges of Deno seem to kill the purported improvements at this point. That was just my gut-take several months ago and I was already steeped in the node/npm ecosystem so I'm curious about your perspective.

For starters Deno is much, much faster in both installation and runtime.

I am not sure if I'll have the chance to exploit other features it has (besides the built-in dotenv support).

Not so many years ago, even installing npm wasn't straight forward.

Re: Deno in 2023

#98

Post by Leokuma »

papruapap wrote: post #50
mborch wrote: post #47

> A program run with Deno has no file, network, or environment access unless explicitly enabled. You can do this using containerization technology, no need to invent this per language runtime.

Agree. This feature just make it worse as a script language, which are supposed to have rapid development.

You just add a flag to the command line to give permissions. It won't harm your productivity.

Re: Deno in 2023

#99

Post by pygy_ »

FrostKiwi wrote: post #74
ogoffart wrote: post #42

I'm interrested in the WebGPU feature. With Slint [1] we're working on a framework which allow to make a desktop GUI in Javascript/Typescript, without bringing a browser/webview. Currently, we do it by using binaries through napi-rs so we can bring in a window using the platform native API. And then we do some hack to merge the event loops. But if Deno supports bringing up a window directly, this means we can just sh…

Big fan of custom rendering approaches, but wouldn't such a Design system sidestep any and accessibility tools? Nothing for screenreader to hook into. Text and interfaces would be neither native nor DOM based.

Slint uses https://github.com/AccessKit/accesskit to provide cross-platform a11y.

Re: Deno in 2023

#100

Post by cryptonym »

crubier wrote: post #66
globalise83 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deno has also created a Next.js competitor, Fresh. I found it a few weeks ago and am starting to go through the docs, looks like a good overall concept. https://fresh.deno.dev/

I actually found this worrying, since it means they are not committed to make NextJS work nicely, quite the opposite they now have incentive to not make it happen

NextJS doesn't have an incentive to run on anything else than Vercel. I wouldn't blame this on Deno.
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