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John Deere Announces Strategic Partnership with SpaceX

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Re: John Deere Announces Strategic Partnership with SpaceX

#91

Post by bluGill »

kube-system wrote: post #63
thelastgallon wrote: post #2

Now, farmers can txt and drive!

Not a problem, unlike Musk, John Deere actually has a real working self-driving product.

Not really. Just like Tesla, you cannot use Deere' self driving system without someone there looking for safety issue. Musk's is clearly better at detecting and avoiding hazards - at least they try, while John Deere admits the system doesn't even try, it will just drive a line and if something is there kill it. The difference is John Deere's system is for use in a field where there is essentially never anything to hit/kill in the first place unlike roads where pedestrians and other cars could be in the way, so Tesla has a lot harder problem.

Not speaking for Deere here.

Re: John Deere Announces Strategic Partnership with SpaceX

#92

Post by wongarsu »

iancmceachern wrote: post #65
arwineap wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does this have to do with TaaS, or right to repair? Just because it has tons of sensors doesn't mean they shouldn't be replacable

They're not really tractors. They sell land prep, crop sowing, and harvesting solutions. It's not like a car. These things are used for a few weeks a year, and if they don't do their job during that time the farm looses all their income for the year. A better way to think of them is like construction equipment that you rent. Even big construction companies rent their equipment.

> if they don't do their job during that time the farm looses all their income for the year.

That's exactly why farmers push for right-to-repair. The old model of "each farmer can repair their tractor, or at least jury-rig it to work for a week" was much more scalable than John Deere somehow having enough staff and service partners to handle anything that goes wrong in those couple of weeks, and then having these people mostly idle the rest of the year.

Of course at the same time newer tractors are much more capable, and allow a farmer to be much more efficient. But for a country it's also somewhat risky to put a large part of their food supply behind a single point of failure

Re: John Deere Announces Strategic Partnership with SpaceX

#94

Post by mrangle »

idiotsecant wrote: post #79
iancmceachern wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not really tractors. They sell land prep, crop sowing, and harvesting solutions. It's not like a car. These things are used for a few weeks a year, and if they don't do their job during that time the farm looses all their income for the year. A better way to think of them is like construction equipment that you rent. Even big construction companies rent their equipment.

This comment still doesn't answer parent question. I design critical infrastructure control systems for a living. Every single component of my systems is user servicable and replaceable with an alternative COTS available component with a little bit of work. There is literally no reason a tractor can't also do that. Other than market moats and rent seeking.

Rent seeking is right. Farmers shouldn't be subjected to landlord economics via their equipment. That is, equipment cost shouldn't scale simply to eat farming profit (as rent costs quickly rise to eat rising incomes).

I'd want to see the numbers on exaclty how much supposed always-up farming equipment saves in crop production, compared to farmers that don't use it.

In fact, I know for certain that the most productive farmland in the US, per area unit, is least likely to use motorized equipment of any kind. And when they do it isn't equipment on par with John Deere.

Re: John Deere Announces Strategic Partnership with SpaceX

#96

Post by kube-system »

bluGill wrote: post #91
kube-system wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a problem, unlike Musk, John Deere actually has a real working self-driving product.

Not really. Just like Tesla, you cannot use Deere' self driving system without someone there looking for safety issue. Musk's is clearly better at detecting and avoiding hazards - at least they try, while John Deere admits the system doesn't even try, it will just drive a line and if something is there kill it. The difference is John Deere's system is for use in a field where there is essentially never anything to hi…

My comment was a bit tongue-in-cheek. I know Deere has a different and easier problem set to address. However, auto-steer and similar tech have been working well on tractors for a long time.

Re: John Deere Announces Strategic Partnership with SpaceX

#97

Post by kube-system »

mathgradthrow wrote: post #85
kube-system wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Civilian GPS is not accurate enough for precision farming which is why these tractor manufacturers in my above link were using Inmarsat L-band to transmit correction information in addition to using GPS. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StarFire_(navigation_system)

I'm even less worried about the security of military GPS.

I don't know what that has to do with this topic. Starfire (and similar) farm tractor guidance systems are not that. Zero farm tractors use military GPS.

Re: John Deere Announces Strategic Partnership with SpaceX

#98

Post by sadhorse »

kube-system wrote: post #74
mathgradthrow wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GPS is ideally quite redundant, and the data from it is usable without an internet connection. GPS is fine.

Civilian GPS is not accurate enough for precision farming which is why these tractor manufacturers in my above link were using Inmarsat L-band to transmit correction information in addition to using GPS. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StarFire_(navigation_system)

It can also be done locally with a fixed base station.

Re: John Deere Announces Strategic Partnership with SpaceX

#99

Post by blackoil »

NotSammyHagar wrote: post #84
iancmceachern wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not really tractors. They sell land prep, crop sowing, and harvesting solutions. It's not like a car. These things are used for a few weeks a year, and if they don't do their job during that time the farm looses all their income for the year. A better way to think of them is like construction equipment that you rent. Even big construction companies rent their equipment.

If I can’t drive to work, I won’t be paid, i’ll lose all my income. Thus, somehow the car company should prevent me from repairing my car, working with any independent qualified garage?

You'll lose all the income of that day or week. Farmer will lose months of income.

Re: John Deere Announces Strategic Partnership with SpaceX

#100

Post by timschmidt »

NotSammyHagar wrote: post #84
iancmceachern wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not really tractors. They sell land prep, crop sowing, and harvesting solutions. It's not like a car. These things are used for a few weeks a year, and if they don't do their job during that time the farm looses all their income for the year. A better way to think of them is like construction equipment that you rent. Even big construction companies rent their equipment.

If I can’t drive to work, I won’t be paid, i’ll lose all my income. Thus, somehow the car company should prevent me from repairing my car, working with any independent qualified garage?

They tried. Independent auto repair shops across the country sued and lobbied to save their businesses.

"On the last day of California's legislative session in 2000, Governor Gray Davis signed into law what had come to be known as "OBD-II." The new law expanded the OBD service information requirements in California by directing car companies to make all manuals and technical service bulletins Internet-accessible, supply tools, and offer training to all non-dealer service companies in the state."

http://fbaum.unc.edu/lobby/_107th/093_OBD_Service_Info/frame...

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