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You're Too Old for That: Age Discrimination in Japan Tech

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Re: You're Too Old for That: Age Discrimination in Japan Tech

#91

Post by chaosmonger7 »

SoftTalker wrote: post #51
JKCalhoun wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We (at Apple) interviewed a guy who was about my age (and I was already in my 50's at that time, ha ha). The interview(s) went great as far as I could suss but when we, the interviewers, met to go around and give the potential hire a thumbs up or thumbs down — one guy on our team was decidedly thumbs down. Why was he thumbs down? "I don't think he's a good fit for the team." When pressed for what that means he simply…

There might be reasons you want to avoid hiring older software devs. I'm in my 50s. I've been through the death marches, the unrealistic goals, the 60-hour weeks, the last minute emergencies, the all-nighters trying to get a release out or trying to recover from the fallout of a poorly tested release. I won't do it anymore. Nobody I know who is my age will do that anymore. There's almost nothing that will keep me at…

I am also in this age bracket and totally agree.

Sorry to tell you kids, age is not like race or sex.

There is a huge difference between what you are getting if you hire me now vs when I was 25. It is two completely different people.

At 25, I wouldn't have even asked how high. I would have just repeatedly jumped as high as I could.

Now, if I don't feel like jumping and you push me to jump I will just quit because I can.

Not to mention, if you learn new things as quickly at 55 as you did at 25 you are lucky because I surely do not.

If you are young and can't understand this perspective, don't worry. You will someday.

Re: You're Too Old for That: Age Discrimination in Japan Tech

#92

Post by [deleted] »

shiroiuma wrote: post #81
alephnan wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They always respond to applications. That's not true. YC startup Tailor, the first (and only?) Japan startup that YC funded, left me on read on LinkedIn. They ignored my application without a response, too. Pretty confident this company discriminates against non-Japanese. To be fair, the whole American tech culture of inclusitivity is not really a thing in Japan or most Asian countries. My freind works as a designe…

>Pretty confident this company discriminates against non-Japanese. Why do you think that? Was the job requisition in English? Did it ask for Japanese proficiency? If the answers are "yes" and "no", respectively, then it's very unlikely they're discriminating against non-Japanese for that job. If they don't want to hire non-Japanese, they'll simply post the job in Japanese only, or put "Japanese language proficiency (…

[deleted]

Re: You're Too Old for That: Age Discrimination in Japan Tech

#93

Post by sureglymop »

shiroiuma wrote: post #75
wegfawefgawefg wrote: post #6

You know what japan always does though? They always respond to applications. Theres no instant automated rejection email. Theres no getting ghosted by 90% of companies. Pay is bad though.

The pay (for tech jobs) isn't that bad compared to other peer nations. It's bad everywhere, compared to the US, where salaries are much, much higher than pretty much everyplace else, except possibly Switzerland. However, the cost of living is much lower in Japan than in the large tech-hub cities in the US (and probably even mid-tier cities). Life in the US is really expensive these days.

Compared to the US, tech salaries in Switzerland are pretty bad unless you work for a big US tech company that has their hq here.

However, salaries in general are high. Tech salaries are just not significantly higher like in the US.

Re: You're Too Old for That: Age Discrimination in Japan Tech

#94

Post by zeroCalories »

Dalewyn wrote: post #78
zeroCalories wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't insure against losing someone important in the early days of a startup. You lose the context and knowledge invested into the person, and replacing them will take time, which is even more valuable for a startup. Sure, things don't matter at a megacorp that has enough of a buffer to weather these leaves, but I'm sympathetic to startups that don't want to hire women. I don't know what the solution is, but it c…

It's not just startups. Airline companies of all sizes are really hesitant to hire women pilots, because training and certifying pilots is fucking expensive in both money and time. They really do not want to invest in a new pilot only for her (or him, for that matter) to say "Yeah, I'm quitting/taking leave for my new baby." and have to write off their investment that could have gone to another would-be pilot who wou…

Yes, but that's more of an accounting problem. Airlines will either have to increase ticket prices, or the state could insure them, or maybe non of that matters because there is a critical shortage of pilots right now.

For an early stage startup the potential loss of an important person is incalculable. 3 month delay could put you irrecoverably behind in the market, it could cause you to run out of funding as your efficiency tanks. Treating it statistically the same way you would for airlines does not work for startups that are fundamentally about being an exception to statistics.

Re: You're Too Old for That: Age Discrimination in Japan Tech

#95

Post by makerdiety »

toast0 wrote: post #36
makerdiety wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could I use a $0.02 microcontroller unit that has 48 bytes of RAM to function as the computer for a homemade networked camera package? Like, attaching the MCU to a one dollar WiFi module to begin building an amateur information technology system with a Raspberry Pi single board computer performing as the mainframe server?

The $1 WiFi module probably has a better microcontroller built in... And thus the popularity of the ESP8266...

I just learned about the ESP8266 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESP8266). Thanks.

So, there's already entire systems on chips? Like the Raspberry Pis and ESP32s?

Are they robust and general purpose though? Can they be integrated into any little home project? Or would you have to design and make your own microchips for your own cases?

Re: You're Too Old for That: Age Discrimination in Japan Tech

#96

Post by ensignavenger »

coldtea wrote: post #88
ensignavenger wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fortunately for me, I finished my degree much later in life than most folks. Pretty sure I could pass myself off as being at least 10 years younger than I am in a job hunt. Though we could just normalize leaveing graduation dates off of resumes... I dont6think that is especially relevant for most jobs.

> Pretty sure I could pass myself off as being at least 10 years younger than I am in a job hunt. Until you get an in person or zoom interview.

I think I can make myself look at least a decade younger, especially over Zoom.

Re: You're Too Old for That: Age Discrimination in Japan Tech

#97

Post by [deleted] »

jalapenos wrote: post #14
coldcode wrote: post #4

If this is true, given their birth rate, they will have to change, or run out of people to do things.

A reminder Japan's birthrate isn't a special case: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_f... Same as Spain and Jamaica, higher than China and Korea.

[deleted]

Re: You're Too Old for That: Age Discrimination in Japan Tech

#98

Post by gnu8 »

gyomu wrote: post #24
jalapenos wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bit disingenuous wording - they don't exclude men from photos & age. The US has summary firing. In Japan if you're a permanent employee you can reasonably expect to remain so. From the people pissing in bottles at Amazon your protections don't sound any better. Hiring discrimination against child bearing aged women is universal - it's just in the US they have to be more careful how they do it.

Yep. I once had the CEO of an early stage, venture backed SF startup I worked for confide to me: “you know, every time we interview a woman in her late 20s/early 30s, I just have to wonder if she’ll take maternity leave 6 months in to working with us. As a startup we just can’t afford that”. Of course the public face of the company was all about fighting inequality, supporting diversity, etc.

I wonder if that CEO was dropped on his head as a child or what else might have been wrong with him to have such a bizarrely spiteful attitude towards humans, and I would have asked him that. People with that type of attitude need to be confronted wherever they are found whenever they express something that fucking stupid. Hopefully he was able to mend his ways.

Re: You're Too Old for That: Age Discrimination in Japan Tech

#99

Post by helij »

Dalewyn wrote: post #76
callalex wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Civilized governments pay the mother’s current salary for a set period of time. Is a great idea.

The cost isn't just about things money can compensate. A new mother on maternity leave (or father on paternity leave for that matter) is: * Not undergoing training (if applicable, eg: a new hire). * Not gaining and maintaining experience and knowledge in the field. * Not making business connections with others in the industry and elsewhere. * Not keeping up (in regards to new standards and ways of doing) with her wor…

Harsh reality only if you're making this world to be business first instead of human first.

Re: You're Too Old for That: Age Discrimination in Japan Tech

#100

Post by Viliam1234 »

chaosmonger7 wrote: post #91
SoftTalker wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There might be reasons you want to avoid hiring older software devs. I'm in my 50s. I've been through the death marches, the unrealistic goals, the 60-hour weeks, the last minute emergencies, the all-nighters trying to get a release out or trying to recover from the fallout of a poorly tested release. I won't do it anymore. Nobody I know who is my age will do that anymore. There's almost nothing that will keep me at…

I am also in this age bracket and totally agree. Sorry to tell you kids, age is not like race or sex. There is a huge difference between what you are getting if you hire me now vs when I was 25. It is two completely different people. At 25, I wouldn't have even asked how high. I would have just repeatedly jumped as high as I could. Now, if I don't feel like jumping and you push me to jump I will just quit because I c…

Similar here. Also, when I am learning the 20th framework for doing essentially the same thing in a slightly different way / in yet another language / better fitting some other framework, I am simply not as curious as I used to be.
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