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Tens of thousands protest in Germany against the rise of the far right

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Re: Tens of thousands protest in Germany against the rise of the far right

#91

Here we are again. If anyone as much as hints at politics from the "other side", their account is immediately nuked. But it's all good when you guys do it. 80 highly political comments, all good. But no, hn is not political. And if it is, it surely is neutral and rational... Sure. And no, this were no protests against the "far right". It was an attempt to get the only opposition party in Germany banned, which is more…

“Only opposition party” is a fundamentally fascist way of seeing things.

Re: Tens of thousands protest in Germany against the rise of the far right

#92
post #44

Is there a right-wing party in Germany? What happened in Greece was that a conservative party (one of the big two) started rising in power, and that took many votes away from the far right party. Maybe the case in Germany is that it's a choice between "far-right" and "leftish"?

The mainstream right/conservative party is the CDU/CSU. The AFD is a newer party to the right of them.

One of the problems being that the CDU/CSU have drifted to the left over the last 10+ years and their is a gap on the right/conservative side that now the AFD is filling.

Re: Tens of thousands protest in Germany against the rise of the far right

#93

Here we are again. If anyone as much as hints at politics from the "other side", their account is immediately nuked. But it's all good when you guys do it. 80 highly political comments, all good. But no, hn is not political. And if it is, it surely is neutral and rational... Sure. And no, this were no protests against the "far right". It was an attempt to get the only opposition party in Germany banned, which is more…

“Only opposition party” is a fundamentally fascist way of seeing things.

I genuinely can't follow that train of thought

Re: Tens of thousands protest in Germany against the rise of the far right

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's not a lot, in a country of millions. We do much more in France, every year. And it's been showing diminishing returns, as the government realized it could just not listen, and nothing bad would happen. You guys have a protest culture I'm pretty envious of. Meanwhile, here in Germany you can and will get arrested for wearing a bicycle helmet...

>You guys have a protest culture I'm pretty envious of. I would be envious on a culture of innovation, building and getting things done.

Yeah, that too, where is that?

Re: Tens of thousands protest in Germany against the rise of the far right

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and they likely will win in some eastern states. "The party leads in several states in eastern Germany, the region where its support is strongest — including three, Brandenburg, Saxony and Thuringia, that are slated to hold elections this fall." Which sucks, because I happen to live there. And my partner with latin american origins often experience racism here. So we are thinking of going away, but the mass ralli…

Mass rallies in Berlin and Munich aren't going to do much about blatant racism in Saxony. That's a bit like an American thinking that activism in NYC is going to have a real effect on the mentality of people in rural Mississippi. The values of people in those different areas are extremely different, and the people in the economically "left behind" regions are actually going to feel even more attacked by these rallies…

There were also some rallies in saxony and more are scheduled for next weekend. Way lower in numbers of course, but it is something. And it is a wake up call for people to come together, before it is too late.

"the people in the economically "left behind" regions are actually going to feel even more attacked by these rallies, most likely, since they already feel like their views are being ignored."

And most of those people radicalized during Covid (there is a big intersection of anti vaxx people with the AfD). They already live in their own universe - disconnected from any source that might challenge their worldview and they made up their mind already about everything. They are comfortable with a de facto Nazi Leader (Höcke) - and yes, they complain that they are getting ignored. But sorry, I would continue to ignore their views of a racist white germany. Apart from that, sure the big politics made many misstakes and did not care about those "left behind" regions at all. And yes, imposing top down, that a quite village suddenly has to host many war traumatized immigrants - was not the way to do it. But the big politics did - and just branded every concerns as racist.

That rightfully pissed people off. But being pissed off about the government is still no justification for becoming a Nazi in my opinion.

Re: Tens of thousands protest in Germany against the rise of the far right

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"So they will finally give the people what they ask for? " How is that possible, when the people themself are divided? For example with weapon support for Ukraine: "Some 44% believe sending Leopard 2 battle tanks to Kyiv is the wrong decision, according to the results of a survey by pollster YouGov published on Sunday. At least 41% support the German government as it plans to send the first of 18 tanks to Ukraine " h…

>So where is the solution fitting everyone? What can the politicians do, to make everyone happy? Do it the Swiss way and ask people trough a plebiscite?

Exercising real democracy ? Are you nuts ? That would require educated citizens in the first place. No no no... elected representatives with carte blanche will do.

Re: Tens of thousands protest in Germany against the rise of the far right

#98

As someone who doesn't live in Europe and never set foot in Europe, it seems like the #1 issue is immigration - both legal and refugees. Am I correct?

No, don't generalize like that. What you have to understand is that even as a percentage of the total population, immigration is only a problem in certain countries/regions mainly both because of failed immigration policies and also because the people there are plainly more racist/xenophobic.

I would put the slowing economic growth and aging population as more substantial EU-wide problems.

Re: Tens of thousands protest in Germany against the rise of the far right

#99

As someone who doesn't live in Europe and never set foot in Europe, it seems like the #1 issue is immigration - both legal and refugees. Am I correct?

NO. Just no. It is the loudest of the topics and easiest to incite the slightly racist majority. Criminality numbers, welfare expenses, "jobs taken", these numbers do not reflect the huge impact the right proclaims. "No-go zones" and "gang warfare in sweden" are easy to pull out of context. The immigration numbers don't even touch the overall population decline. The overall topic of "population exchange" is a longer term philosophical topic (that began decades ago) rather than "number 1 burning issue".

Re: Tens of thousands protest in Germany against the rise of the far right

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not in modern Germany yet, no. Their protests are rather small in comparison and often met with much larger anti protests. However, the far right party AfD has been gaining lots of votes over the last few years. It will be interesting to see whether these protests are the beginning of a reversal of that trend.

Aren't there farmer protests in Germany right now?

While supported by the right, farmers had a very concrete reason to make the protests.

It's actually very weird because normally right-wing ideology should not support tax cuts for agriculture on paper. These days it's more like supporting all the opposite of what the other side is doing.

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