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Apple to Developers: Heads I win, tails you lose (part 2)

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Re: Apple to Developers: Heads I win, tails you lose (part 2)

#91
post #10

Guys - Epic lost the lawsuit. That's why nothing changed. Why does this feel exactly like the 2020 election, where one side lost but keeps complaining that everyone is acting like they lost.

In the mean time, Epic did win a similar suit against Google.

Re: Apple to Developers: Heads I win, tails you lose (part 2)

#92
post #74
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A dishonest comment since we know the app store fee is not just for payment processing.

The $99/year paid by every developer is more than sufficient to cover the expenses involved in distributing their apps.

A statement that is obviously absurd at its face for anyone who thinks for even a minute about what is involved.

Re: Apple to Developers: Heads I win, tails you lose (part 2)

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can feel more “seams” between components That's it. I've been struggling to figure out what I can't stand about iOS and it just clicked. It's the lack of seams. When something breaks I can never figure out what specifically broke, so I can't reason about my mistake (or know who to contact if it's not my mistake). I like seams so much that I'm running google play services in a sandbox (Graphene OS) so google has…

It all depends on what one’s looking for I guess. As an aesthetically inclined technical person, seams can be annoying to the point of distraction if they’re not thoughtfully worked into the design (90% of the time, they’re not).

Different strokes for different folks I guess. I don't care about aesthetics at all, I'm just wanting to know where I'd put the crowbar if I wanted to turn it into something else.

The ideal technology for me is quietly doing is job somewhere I can't currently see and rarely have to look. Perhaps that counts as aesthetics?

Re: Apple to Developers: Heads I win, tails you lose (part 2)

#94
post #48
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't Stripe be significantly cheaper? I'm making the opposite of a philosophical argument, I'm making a practical one. Apple is not going to take away the App Store, or make it too difficult for developers to upload apps, since that would be a real threat to their iPhone business. Developers need Apple, but Apple needs developers too. Currently their market domination makes it an extremely hard collective action…

> Wouldn't Stripe be significantly cheaper? Can we stop pretending the app store fee is just for payment processing?

That is currently the only thing they're charging for. Like I said, let them unbundle if they want to. I wouldn't be surprised if they actually end up just taking a revenue hit to keep the ecosystem healthy, which would mean more money for developers.

Re: Apple to Developers: Heads I win, tails you lose (part 2)

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The threat vector is facebook telling users to install Instagram/FB from their own app store PSA, do not install Facebook on your iPhone. Use your browser. Apple does deserve credit for forcing some privacy improvements on iOS for the Facebook app but it is in no way comparable to the privacy of a web browser. If you are using Facebook's app because you're on iOS and you're thinking, "oh it's fine, Facebook can't t…

> Also to be clear, the privacy improvements Apple has pushed for on iOS are in no small part to stop allowing access to an advertising ID that should not be on iOS at all. In 2010, Apple launched its own ad system called iAds[0]. Around that time, they started to crack down on other ad networks using UDID/mac addresses to target users with ads[1]. I imagine that Apple only made the IDFA in a compromise with advertis…

I'm confused how you would see this as anything other than further evidence for my point.

Don't install native apps from hostile networks like Facebook; they hook into systems that shouldn't exist that were added as a privacy-compromising concession in order to avoid regulatory scrutiny into other systems that also shouldn't exist.

The history of IDFA ultimately boils down to one fact: that for whatever reason it was added, the protections in place now are still protecting you from a tracking system that Apple added. And Apple's standards on what is and isn't an acceptable line to cross regarding privacy demonstrably are not always as going to be as strict as they ought to be. Sometimes Apple compromises.

These apps are not safe just because they have Apple's seal of approval, there is a certain threshold of abusive behavior from apps like Facebook that Apple will tolerate. It is better to use a web browser so that (however imperfect it may be) you can get at least some small amount of real sandboxing.

Look, I'm not even saying you need to support third-party app stores. I obviously have opinions on that, but if you disagree and think 3rd party stores will make things worse, then fine. That's not my point. My point is: don't get the impression that Facebook's native app is safe just because Apple hasn't removed it. iOS doesn't have enough tracking protection to make it a good idea to use these apps natively on your phone or to make it OK to advise others to install them; they should be avoided and used only within a browser if you care about your privacy.

Re: Apple to Developers: Heads I win, tails you lose (part 2)

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt it, otherwise we'd see this in Android. And while it does happen of course, it's vanishingly rare. Anecdotally I have plenty of friends and family who are neither technically proficient nor well educated and they seem to be doing just fine. Instead it's a boon, especially for folks like myself who use a fair amount of software from alternative stores/installers.

As far as I know, Android also doesn't have the same level of privacy requirements and permission prompts to show the user. Facebook et al. don't have much of a reason to push a third-party app store. In addition, exploitation might be transparent to the user, i.e. a botnet that runs in the background[0] or replacing ads in other apps to steal their revenue[1]. People use iOS and recommend it to their friends/family…

Thankfully iOS users don't have to worry about any of that because Apple uses state of the art sandboxing that stops apps from stealing your data. I don't know what kind of safeguards you think the app store provides, but most of them are either provided by the OS itself, which would also apply to sideloaded apps, or they don't exist at all.

Re: Apple to Developers: Heads I win, tails you lose (part 2)

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably a familiarity with how brick and mortar business work and what it was like when software came in a box. 30% or 15% for one stop global distribution and multi-jurisdictional tax collecting is a deal all day long. Could Spotify have bootstrapped itself without the App Store?

Did brick and mortar stores have a monopoly on software distribution?

They had as much control of what was available one their shelves.

Re: Apple to Developers: Heads I win, tails you lose (part 2)

#98
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what point you are trying to make here. You think that developers got a better deal when software was sold in brick and mortar stores? I remember when the App Store was first announced, there was much excitement among developers over Apple only taking a 30% cut.

> You think that developers got a better deal when software was sold in brick and mortar stores? I remember when the App Store was first announced, there was much excitement among developers over Apple only taking a 30% cut. Not among Mac developers who distributed their software over the web directly to customers, bypassing the middlemen. Also, little did we know at the time that the App Store would inaugurate a rac…

Your points have validity but don’t come close to capture the richness of the world around us.

It is your choice on how to contemplate how full a glass is.

Re: Apple to Developers: Heads I win, tails you lose (part 2)

#99
post #94
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wouldn't Stripe be significantly cheaper? Can we stop pretending the app store fee is just for payment processing?

That is currently the only thing they're charging for. Like I said, let them unbundle if they want to. I wouldn't be surprised if they actually end up just taking a revenue hit to keep the ecosystem healthy, which would mean more money for developers.

What are you talking about? Where do they say that they are only charging for payment processing?

Re: Apple to Developers: Heads I win, tails you lose (part 2)

#100
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never heard a person complain about this in real life. I hear other issues with Apple but never has anyone espoused the desire for another AppStore. Everyone loves the ability to mange subs in one location. They enjoy the ease of transactions from the AppStore as opposed to entering cc info or logging into other apps. My less tech savvy friends and family feel safe in the iOS ecosystem. They do think there are…

> I have never heard a person complain about this in real life. This is all real life. I'm real. What you appear to be saying is that you're judging entirely by the ancedotal experience of the small number of people who you happen to know personally. How many of them have actually requested an App Store refund? What I can say, as an App Store developer, is that a lot of consumers are totally ignorant of how the App S…

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