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Big Data's Big Problem: Little Talent

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Re: Big Data's Big Problem: Little Talent

#91
"claims of severe talent shortage in Big Data http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405270230472330457736... Ok... where are the high salaries (500k$ a year)? No? No real shortage."

https://twitter.com/#!/lemire/status/196245665951649793

Business has a shortage of "big data" folks in much the same way I have a "huge sailboat" shortage. Neither of us want to pay for it. We want it, but not for the going rate. Only one of us has a media platform, though.

Re: Big Data's Big Problem: Little Talent

#92

I'm not sure that the kinds of employees that this article describes will ever be a large number. There could be more of them in the future, but someone who is top-notch at all of statistics, programming, and data-presentation has long been less common than someone who's good at one or two of those. Companies might consider looking at better ways to build teams that combine talent that exists, instead of pining for m…

That's a great point. In theory, having a shortage of X at price Y is nonsensical. It doesn't make any sense to say there's a shortage of worker drones with a mastery of multiple advanced disciplines. There are "enough" of them, they're just called consultants and they make like a thousand dollars an hour. Or if there aren't enough of them, offer a salary that will enable them to at least pay off the student loans they'll accumulate getting a Ph.D and a couple masters degrees on top.

...in theory.

Re: Big Data's Big Problem: Little Talent

#93

I'm not sure that the kinds of employees that this article describes will ever be a large number. There could be more of them in the future, but someone who is top-notch at all of statistics, programming, and data-presentation has long been less common than someone who's good at one or two of those. Companies might consider looking at better ways to build teams that combine talent that exists, instead of pining for m…

I think you are very much on point with your comments.

I am one of those people who are actually capable of going from MIG welding to designing websites, writing iOS apps, developing embedded hardware and software as well as GHz-range electronics with FPGA's, mechanical design and FEA.

The only option for someone like me seems to be to run your own business. Nobody is likely to pay for the combined skill set. Which means that having these skills is both a blessing and a curse depending on your point of view. I can take any product from drawing to completion. My resume scares most employers. And, in many ways, rightly so.

Hiring someone who can do the work of five people is very risky. You loose one person and your entire team is gone. And, of course, there is no way that one person can have the productivity offered by a team of specialists.

In the end, someone with my skill set either ends-up doing their own thing or in a managerial position where the wide knowledge base and context gained from actually being able to do the work can be harnessed to guide and assist a team in achieving the required goals.

As an entrepreneur, having a wide skill set can be priceless so long as you start letting go as soon as you can start hiring specialists. This can be hard for some. It's great to be able to do it all when you want to launch something and save a bunch of money. Once launched, you need to divest yourself from responsibilities as quickly as possible because you will hit productivity walls and you simply can't focus on everything at the same time.

The age of the generalist is pretty far gone. If employment is the goal it is best to focus on one subject and become really good at it.

Re: Big Data's Big Problem: Little Talent

#94
post #81
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what if 10% improvement means 10 M$/year ? Anyway I think there are many applications where getting the absolute best performance isn't as important as finding the problem, figuring out how to apply a machine learning model to it (which includes getting the necessary training data) then training an off the shelf mode. The later of these may take a day or less, the other phases may well require both more thought a…

10% increase in 3 years translates to around. 3.3% yearly growth rate. So in your example the 3.3% increase would be that 10M$ => so 1% of your annual business revenue is 10/3.3 or just above 3M$. But that means you already have a really significant business that makes ~300 M$ per year. And you manage to increase it just by peanuts (relatively speaking). And there is inflation in economy, and the alternative costs of…

Of course all these numbers are hypothetical, I have no idea what the actual Netflix numbers are, but aren't you assuming 100% profit margin ?

If you actually have a machine learning application that increases annual revenue by 10% and your initial annual revenue is $300M (like in the example) and your profit margin is 50% then (neglecting the $1M cost of the model because it's small and amortized over many years) your annual profits go from $150M to $180M which is a 20% increase. I don't think that is a number to yawn about.

On your last point I actually think the opposite is true. The larger a company's operations the more potential cost savings there are. If profit margins are slim, as they are in many industries, the effect on earnings of relatively small cost savings or revenue increases can be large indeed.

Re: Big Data's Big Problem: Little Talent

#95
Not entirely sure this is true, to be honest. Most of "data science" lies in the work of collecting and cleaning the data to get it into a usable state. A recent story on the"fallacy of the data scientist shortage"[1] goes into more detail, but in reality what we want in this quantity are better data analysts. I love the idea of data science as, essentially, viewing statistical analysis from a computer science perspective, but the breathless predictions of a huge shortage seem a little overblown.

[1]: http://smartdatacollective.com/nraden/48952/fallacy-data-sci...

Re: Big Data's Big Problem: Little Talent

#96
It seems the problem is that some companies are looking for person who is expert in setting up scalable systems (Hadoop cluster, storage, high availability, etc.) and that she/he also knows statistics and efficient ways of processing and understanding the data. Good luck with that.

My observation is that requirements like this come from people who did mainly web programing (and actually that was making a lot of money so with money they become influential): assuming that this equivalent of writing both ruby code and javascript code.

Building team is hard and in order to solve "big data" problem you need to build a balanced team.

Re: Big Data's Big Problem: Little Talent

#97
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a total ploy by large companies to increase the H1-B visa cap. I have seen companies post job openings with starting salaries of 40K for experienced developer positions so they can then claim there were no American applicants. Its a self fulfilling prophecy, if companies outsource the jobs then people don't study those skills for fear of their job going to India; then the companies complain that there aren't…

One other thing is that the traditional entry route to software for the non-traditional candidate was via the helpdesk or QA department. You got your foot in the door, impressed the established engineers by turning around tickets quickly or by writing comprehensive bug reports, then when they needed another developer, you got the tap on the shoulder. Some of the best engineers I've worked with have come in through th…

I've seen this method of advancement with those around me at where I work. However, I've had the exact opposite experience that you have had. Although, I'm willing to admit to selection bias regarding the sample of candidates.

Re: Big Data's Big Problem: Little Talent

#98
post #2

Actually that is silly -- McKensey should now that there is and will never be a talent shortage. There will only be shortage of talent at a particular wage rate. If the companies paid newly graduated 'data-scientists' (what other kind of scientists are there? The tea-leaf reading kind?) 200k/year then they would have a lot more. It is pretty simple economics.

Bags of money are already being waved around, that is not the problem. Wages are already moving north of $200k for these positions because you can't find people with the basic skills for any amount of money.

Being a "data scientist" as currently defined in practice requires someone to be a polymath with skills that are individually high value and not commonly found together. Roughly speaking, you need some aptitude and experience in the following areas:

- mathematics, particularly statistics, computational geometry, machine learning, and probability theory

- parallel algorithm design, something for which most software engineers have no skill

- database ETL processes, formerly a highly specialized discipline only found in the database administration world

You can learn the mathematics in school or with some study. Most software engineers never develop a knack for parallel algorithm design even when they try e.g. virtually all software engineers who claim to know parallel algorithms can't explain why hash joins do not parallelize well. Lastly, ETL is something that isn't normally found mixed with the other two but which usually requires some significant experience to do correctly. Even if you are a master of mathematics and parallel algorithms, ETL skills are something you usually learn by apprenticing with someone who is an ETL master for a couple years.

Finding people that even have basic levels of skill at all three of these things is very difficult even if you loosen the criteria significantly. Unlike some other tech job fads, you can't mint a crop of data scientists in a year.

When I look at the junior level data scientists we trained internally with great basic skills out of school, it has taken years to develop them. This level of effort and length of time is the real bottleneck.

Re: Big Data's Big Problem: Little Talent

#99
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree somewhat, but retention is a fairly major problem. The shift away from career-length employment means that neither employers nor employees assume there will necessarily be much loyalty or longevity in the relationship. I think the decline in on-the-job training is directly related. Engineering firms used to be able to assume that it's okay to lose money on the first five years or so of an employee's work, if…

That's definitely true, but I think that a part of on the job training is building loyalty. If you like the people you work with and the salary and benefits are pretty decent, you are not likely to want to go looking for another job. For my last job (at a really big company), the only time that substantially increasing my salary came up was when I was already on my way out the door, and they realized 'oh shit, we rea…

The whole thing seems to be a problem created by the volatility and rapid growth/movement of the tech industry. Job loyalty originally started to decline in part because companies didn't last, and began a downward spiral as logical "next steps" were taken, such as cutting on the job training.

As for salaries, I think the gradual increase was historically normal, but the potentials for dramatic growth in skill and effectiveness is new and enabled by the tech sector. We haven't figured out how to cope with it yet. (No, you can't just give everyone 50% raises YOY).

Re: Big Data's Big Problem: Little Talent

#100
post #91

"claims of severe talent shortage in Big Data http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405270230472330457736... Ok... where are the high salaries (500k$ a year)? No? No real shortage." https://twitter.com/#!/lemire/status/196245665951649793 Business has a shortage of "big data" folks in much the same way I have a "huge sailboat" shortage. Neither of us want to pay for it. We want it, but not for the going rate. Only on…

The salaries are already moving north of $200k even outside of Silicon Valley and New York City and getting more expensive by the month. How high do they have to be before we have a "shortage"? The problem is not lack of money, it is that demand has greatly outstripped a finite supply.

Very high wages do not automagically create new people with the requisite skills and this is the real bottleneck. It takes significant aptitude and years of training/experience to become useful as a "data scientist". It is not as easy as I think people are imagining. We train people with excellent raw skills where I work, usually strong applied mathematics backgrounds with natural programming skills. It is much easier than trying to find someone outside with these skills, though we do attempt outside recruitment. It still takes years to develop the people we train into a good, basic data scientist.

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