Cloudflare lays off new hires • Hacker News Board

Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires

#91

Post by eganist » Fri, Jan 12, 2024, 2:22 AM UTC

neom wrote: post #53

KyleSanderson wrote: post #2

Plenty of these on LI today unfortunately. https://www.linkedin.com/posts/skoroleva_opentowork-techsale... https://twitter.com/BowTiedPassport/status/17451497589921956...

Yikes on that second link, I seriously hope she told them she was recording the call or she may run into some two-party consent issues.

The replies beneath you are likely wildly off base if the other end of the phone call was based in a two party consent state like California.

If both ends of the call were in Virginia or another one party consent state, the recording is probably fine.

But that also doesn't rule out the applicability of the cloudflare NDA.

(Not a lawyer)

Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires

#92

Post by NicoJuicy » Fri, Jan 12, 2024, 2:22 AM UTC

grepfru_it wrote: post #39

Hey this is very similar to my story 2 years ago! (different company) It's only going to get worse, but protip: if you don't want to deal with the interview circuit like I did, set your salary expectations hilariously low and at least you will still collect income. Good luck to everyone in our shoes!

Are you in sales?

Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires

#93

Post by minicoz » Fri, Jan 12, 2024, 2:22 AM UTC

gizmo385 wrote: post #61

declan_roberts wrote: post #52

[flagged]

> The company wants to try and make more money and one way is eliminating your job. Why is that so personal? God forbid we expect people to be treated with a bit of dignity and given the opportunity to actually say goodbye to their friends and colleagues. Millennials grew up being told over and over “be loyal to a company and they’ll treat you well” and have largely began their careers in an era where it’s clear comp…

I'm a millennial and I'm not naive enough to believe a company has my best interest at heart.

This is year 2 of rough layoffs in tech. anyone that didn't see January coming as layoff month is dumb.

Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires

#94

Post by sputknick » Fri, Jan 12, 2024, 2:23 AM UTC

irjustin wrote: post #58

Possibly stupid question - why are so many companies laying off? According to Wallstreet, the majority of the recession scare isn't a scare. Inflation, while not fully at target, is getting better. Unemployment is at an all time low. So many companies are laying off like it's the worst times ahead. Obviously layoffs aren't taken lightly so there must be some internal signals that really push them to take these measur…

When it comes to layoffs, no one wants to be the first company to do it, and no one wants to be the last company to do it. Once a few of the industry leaders started doing it, it gave others top-cover to start the process. At this point they need to do the layoffs so if they report bad sales numbers for the quarter they can say "we saw this coming, thats why we did some layoffs alredy. we should be good now". And if it turns out the didn't "need" to do it, they can just hire the people other companies laid off.

Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires

#95

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jan 12, 2024, 2:23 AM UTC

lgleason wrote: post #88

neom wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yikes on that second link, I seriously hope she told them she was recording the call or she may run into some two-party consent issues.

Her Linkedin says she's in Atlanta. Either way, I doubt she will get severance after that and if Cloudflare wants to make a point they could try to go after her for a violation of the companies NDA/confidentiality she signed when she was hired by recording that and sharing it on the net.

[deleted]

Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires

#96

Post by ojbyrne » Fri, Jan 12, 2024, 2:23 AM UTC

mef wrote: post #74

irjustin wrote: post #58

Possibly stupid question - why are so many companies laying off? According to Wallstreet, the majority of the recession scare isn't a scare. Inflation, while not fully at target, is getting better. Unemployment is at an all time low. So many companies are laying off like it's the worst times ahead. Obviously layoffs aren't taken lightly so there must be some internal signals that really push them to take these measur…

high interest rates increase cost to service debt

Most big tech companies don’t have debt.

Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires

#97

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jan 12, 2024, 2:23 AM UTC

system2 wrote: post #59

How many were laid off? I can't find an article online about the layoffs. Do we only have her word or something I missed? Cloudflare stock doesn't show any movement. Usually, I see a big dip when something like this happens. I saw the video posted here and all I see is an intern getting fired. Is it something unusual? I know companies with less than 50 employees hiring and firing a bunch of people every month. For Cl…

[deleted]

Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires

#98

Post by baryphonic » Fri, Jan 12, 2024, 2:24 AM UTC

candiddevmike wrote: post #9

strix_varius wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am absolutely for decoupling healthcare from employment (via universal care), and for mandated severance. However, there's a reason that so many - I'll pick on Germany here - German tech leaders move to the US. When firing employees becomes too hard, hiring is risky, giving people broad latitude is risky, and compensation suffers because high comp is risky. If you're a very capable software engineer, it's better to…

> When firing employees becomes too hard, hiring is risky, giving people broad latitude is risky, and compensation suffers because high comp is risky. I don't follow this conclusion at all.

> > When firing employees becomes too hard, hiring becomes risky

If a firm has severe restrictions on firing anyone, then it must be extremely diligent with hiring, because employees will be around as long as they want to be. If an employee is unproductive, lazy, or just a bad fit, then the firm will be stuck giving a paycheck to someone who really ought not to be there. Thus firms will simply delay hiring.

> > giving people broad latitude is risky

I admit, I'm not exactly sure what this means, but I would surmise it means that employees need to be micromanaged to ensure loyalty to the firm, since they have no natural consequences of going rogue.

> > compensation suffers because high comp is risky

If the firm grants significant pay increases but cannot terminate someone, that pay increase becomes a permanent recurring expense, even if some future event renders that pay increase inappropriate or unnecessary. Thus firms will minimize pay increases.

These are "deadweight losses" where optimal exchange between employers and employees is limited by some policy.

Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires

#99

Post by pc86 » Fri, Jan 12, 2024, 2:24 AM UTC

aestetix wrote: post #84

I don't understand why Cloudflare can't just be honest and say the reason she got laid off, instead of making up some garbage about her performance. That was her main complaint, and I side with her completely. She was not asking to keep her job, or asking unreasonable questions. If they just explained that it was because the company overhired, or because they needed to reduce costs to keep the company afloat, that wo…

What does it matter? If they say they overhired, you have people in here asking why the CEO (or the board) doesn't get fired for that decision. If they say their investors are demanding better returns (e.g. higher stock price, higher profits, wahtever that means for the particular business) you have people in here saying it's greed.

There is no answer Cloudflare could give her or anyone else that would make folks go "oh, ok, I get it. Thanks!" So why even bother giving one?

Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires

#100

Post by giancarlostoro » Fri, Jan 12, 2024, 2:24 AM UTC

grepfru_it wrote: post #39

Hey this is very similar to my story 2 years ago! (different company) It's only going to get worse, but protip: if you don't want to deal with the interview circuit like I did, set your salary expectations hilariously low and at least you will still collect income. Good luck to everyone in our shoes!

I mean, I've been severely underpaid for a while, so my salary ask is never that high, but cost of living keeps going up on me, and I've not caught up. I'm having to deal with the interview circus (not a typo) currently and it is tiresome, if its not questions that I know don't matter in order to create a CRUD application, it's a confused HR person that passes on me for some magical reasons. It would be nice if I could get actual feedback from prospective employers, I gave you time and energy, got myself hyped for your company, only to receive no such feedback. This is the longest I've been without a job my whole life, so its quite an experience. The last time I was jobless, I had a job within a week.

I don't know, I think everyone's experience is different, and some of us are better fit for specific teams, if someone can figure out how to pair people based on how well they would fit with specific teams as opposed to what technology they all use, they would make a fortune, I can learn any obscure language in a short span of time, heck I was building a MonkeyC app for Garmin Watches within a week of being asked to work on one, a simple proof of concept in a language I had never heard of, because I liked the people I worked with, mind you I was the only one touching that language.