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Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

theguardian.com

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Re: Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

#91

Post by verisimi »

Buttons840 wrote: post #77
ahi wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been getting those separate bills recently and it's driving me nuts. For one small out patient procedure I have received bills from the hospital, the doctor, the anesthesiologist, anesthesiologist nursing company, and a random surgeon I have never met that the doctor asked in for a 30 second consult (I know how long the procedure took) while I was under. Seriously considering ignoring some of these whotf-are-you…

I'm surprised medical billing scams aren't rampant, considering it's 100% normal to have a bill from from an unknown company show up asking for payment for unclear reasons for a procedure done a year ago.

Isn't the whole thing a scam? Top (legislation) to bottom (little gripy socks, as per another commenter).

Re: Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

#92

Post by crazygringo »

wolverine876 wrote: post #84

Don't let yourself get caught up in these details. The problem is the unreformed healthcare system; these are just more symptoms of it. It's like the old, failing server at work - people say the problem is the power supply, the outdated driver, etc. - it's not; the problem is we haven't installed a new server. We all can see the US healthcare system is awful. If you aren't doing anything about it, the problem is you.…

> If you aren't doing anything about it, the problem is you.

What do you expect me to do about it? I live in a reliably blue area and it's Republicans who are blocking things like a single-payer system.

So what exactly are you suggesting? Uproot my life and go move to a swing state so I can vote Democrat there?

Because short of that, I don't know what. And the country is so culturally divided, it's not like there are many swing voters left who can even be convinced anymore. Republicans just don't want health care reform, so what are we supposed to do?

Re: Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

#93

Post by calamari4065 »

Hospitals love to do this thing where you set up a payment plan for auto-draft, but the moment you get a new bill, they cancel the payment plan with no notice and happily let your account go delinquent.

At that point, I just let it go to collections until the collector is willing to settle for a fraction. Or if I get lucky, the debt gets sold seventeen times and it just goes away once I ask for proof that they own my debt.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes I say. If you wanna try and fuck around with me, I'll do my level best to make sure you lose as much money as possible.

Re: Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

#94

Post by giantg2 »

paxys wrote: post #87
wolverine876 wrote: post #84

Don't let yourself get caught up in these details. The problem is the unreformed healthcare system; these are just more symptoms of it. It's like the old, failing server at work - people say the problem is the power supply, the outdated driver, etc. - it's not; the problem is we haven't installed a new server. We all can see the US healthcare system is awful. If you aren't doing anything about it, the problem is you.…

One can blame politicians and corporations all they like, but the simple fact is that >50% of the country (and significantly more than that when accounting for skewed political representation) does not want the system to change, because to them any alternative is "socialism".

... US government-run "socialism".

Because we all know how well they run all the other programs, especially if you've dealt with healthcare they already run (military and VA).

I'd imagine people would be clamoring for socialized medicine if they fixed the VA to be a shining example.

Re: Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

#95

Post by antisthenes »

beaeglebeached wrote: post #57
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As opposed to a single 'doctor' mass denying 1000's of requests a day? That should be illegal.

Profit margins are like 4% on health insurance. Insurance companies introduce a lot of cost and waste, but there's no evidence to me these mass denials are anything but the market not bearing real insurance that covers things reasonably under current regulatory conditions. Could it be the consumer is too poor to pay for a bloated system that covers what it does, plus the mass denials? The whole system is fucked and t…

> Profit margins are like 4% on health insurance.

If I tell you my cost of a bottle of water is $96,000 and sell it to you for $100,000 in the middle of the desert, my profit margin is only 4%.

Re: Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

#96

Post by amluto »

crazygringo wrote: post #92
wolverine876 wrote: post #84

Don't let yourself get caught up in these details. The problem is the unreformed healthcare system; these are just more symptoms of it. It's like the old, failing server at work - people say the problem is the power supply, the outdated driver, etc. - it's not; the problem is we haven't installed a new server. We all can see the US healthcare system is awful. If you aren't doing anything about it, the problem is you.…

> If you aren't doing anything about it, the problem is you. What do you expect me to do about it? I live in a reliably blue area and it's Republicans who are blocking things like a single-payer system. So what exactly are you suggesting? Uproot my life and go move to a swing state so I can vote Democrat there? Because short of that, I don't know what. And the country is so culturally divided, it's not like there are…

A single-payer system doesn’t seem like a magic fix to me at all. At best, a single payer could, at least in principle, wield enough market power to improve the overall system.

Just look at Medicare. Medicare has enormous market power, but it uses that power in more or less absurd ways and does not optimize patient outcomes or its own expenditures particularly effectively.

Re: Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

#97

Post by paxys »

giantg2 wrote: post #94
paxys wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One can blame politicians and corporations all they like, but the simple fact is that >50% of the country (and significantly more than that when accounting for skewed political representation) does not want the system to change, because to them any alternative is "socialism".

... US government-run "socialism". Because we all know how well they run all the other programs, especially if you've dealt with healthcare they already run (military and VA). I'd imagine people would be clamoring for socialized medicine if they fixed the VA to be a shining example.

And yet Medicare has a 94% satisfaction rate.

Re: Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

#98

Post by toast0 »

mtlynch wrote: post #41
tptacek wrote: post #13

This is the only debt I have, because hospital payment systems are fucking impossible to navigate. Thankfully, the Biden administration is drafting plans to make it unlawful to report that debt to credit reporting agencies, so I anticipate soon giving even less of a shit about it than I do now. Figure it out with my insurer, or bill me at the time of service. I'm sure as shit not responding to an invoice.

I'd love to adopt this strategy as well, but I worry about the clinic eventually forcing me to pay somehow and adding a bunch of penalties on top. Is there a way to mitigate that risk? Or is that risk unlikely in a way I'm not considering?

First off: I suggest you pay any reasonable bills you know you incurred and can pay. Don't be a deadbeat. That said...

As I understand it, it's pretty typical for these bills to be sold, and once that happens, the originator doesn't really care anymore. They got what they got and it's written off. Maybe they won't see you anymore, because you don't pay your bills; maybe they don't really care because lots of people don't pay their bills; if they were smart, they'd bill you at time of service, but chances are they're not organizationally capable of billing at time of service. If they won't see you anymore and you have limited options for medical care or they're the best option for medical care; you'll need to settle up. If not, the clinic has no means or desire to force you to pay.

The debt collectors have a time limited option to take you to court for repayment, but most of the bills aren't worth the effort, so you can probably wait it out. It might ding your credit, but if it comes up, you say 'hey, this bill correct' and it's a medical bill and everyone believes you.

If the debt collectors do file a suit, and you have the money to pay, negotiate a payout then.

Re: Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

#99

Post by rayiner »

crazygringo wrote: post #92
wolverine876 wrote: post #84

Don't let yourself get caught up in these details. The problem is the unreformed healthcare system; these are just more symptoms of it. It's like the old, failing server at work - people say the problem is the power supply, the outdated driver, etc. - it's not; the problem is we haven't installed a new server. We all can see the US healthcare system is awful. If you aren't doing anything about it, the problem is you.…

> If you aren't doing anything about it, the problem is you. What do you expect me to do about it? I live in a reliably blue area and it's Republicans who are blocking things like a single-payer system. So what exactly are you suggesting? Uproot my life and go move to a swing state so I can vote Democrat there? Because short of that, I don't know what. And the country is so culturally divided, it's not like there are…

> What do you expect me to do about it? I live in a reliably blue area and it's Republicans who are blocking things like a single-payer system.

So why did single payer healthcare fail in Vermont and California? European countries the size of Maryland manage to run their own universal healthcare systems. Why can’t states where democrats outnumber republicans 2:1 do the same?

Re: Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

#100

Post by edgyquant »

paxys wrote: post #87
wolverine876 wrote: post #84

Don't let yourself get caught up in these details. The problem is the unreformed healthcare system; these are just more symptoms of it. It's like the old, failing server at work - people say the problem is the power supply, the outdated driver, etc. - it's not; the problem is we haven't installed a new server. We all can see the US healthcare system is awful. If you aren't doing anything about it, the problem is you.…

One can blame politicians and corporations all they like, but the simple fact is that >50% of the country (and significantly more than that when accounting for skewed political representation) does not want the system to change, because to them any alternative is "socialism".

No it’s because socialism isn’t the only alternative and half the country wants to use it as an excuse to enact socialism, just like they want to use literally every other issue as an excuse to enact socialism.

To me the medical system is the worst of both worlds. It’s heavily regulated in favor of the businesses (insurance/hospitals) and gives the illusion of competition when in reality “networks” exist to ensure there is no actual competition. I think either full on socialism or fully free market would be a huge improvement.

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