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New GeForce RTX 4080 Super, RTX 4070 Ti Super, RTX 4070 Super

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Re: New GeForce RTX 4080 Super, RTX 4070 Ti Super, RTX 4070 Super

#91
post #21

I didn't expect an announcement of the Supers this early in the year, nor did I expect them to be cheaper than the non-Super cards. I bought the 4080 recently with the thought that Nvidia's trend in the past 4 or 5 years has been to increase prices, so even if the Supers were announced this early in the year the performance increase would cost proportionally more money anyway. Sucks for me, but overall I'm glad that…

> nor did I expect them to be cheaper than the non-Super cards.

to be blunt, that's because you bought into ayymd propaganda. it is so endemic that people don't even see it for what it is anymore, people are constantly bombarded with absurdly pro-AMD and absurdly anti-NVIDIA takes, it's just the sea in which we swim on social media.

you should take it as a learning experience and not constantly buy into the ayymd bandwagon of the week next time. because there will absolutely be a next time - probably people will move onto the next insane thing within a few weeks here.

Last year it was that the 4090 was going to be >900W... people talked themselves into thinking that a two-node shrink was going to result in zero efficiency gain. This ada gen is a dud, just wait for AMD, the 7900XTX is gonna blow the doors off!

https://www.techpowerup.com/294261/nvidia-allegedly-testing-...

And it's happened to RDNA3, Vega, Fury X, Zen2, etc, and against every single technology deployed via RTX or DLSS. The flip on framegen the day AMD released FSR3 was amazing, and instantly all the complaints about latency etc vanished within a single day, despite being significantly worse latency because of forced vsync/incompatibility with VRR, let alone the reflex-only baseline. "Possibly the best part of FSR now" etc.

it's like the runup to the iraq war or something, there were counter-voices, but why would you want to listen to them when everybody knows the truth already? Going against the grain constantly is tiresome and frames you as an iconoclast, and even if you're right people still think you're a troublemaker for having contradicted them earlier. The people who blocked you are not gonna unblock you just because you were right. It's like trying to be the voice of reason in a failing project, even if you save the project you're still a troublemaker. So eventually the dialogue just fades into an echo chamber. It is a fast road to what was eulogized as "epistemic closure" - aka "we bandwagoned too hard and drowned out all the opposing voices, and it turns out they were correct".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistemic_closure#Epistemic_cl...

So here we are: green man bad, everyone knows it, and this exception really only proves the rule. Now if you'll excuse me I've got some very important posts to make about how you'll never be able to buy one for MSRP anyway, like it's still 2020 or something.

In fairness you are not alone, fun reading from only a few days ago etc: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38804502

Re: New GeForce RTX 4080 Super, RTX 4070 Ti Super, RTX 4070 Super

#92
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poor performance uplift? The 4080 is significantly faster than the 3090 with much lower power consumption!

It's not always faster than the 3090, let alone "significantly", except in very specific resolutions and games. here's a review from a traditionally pro intel and nvidia outlet: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/nvidia-geforce-rtx-4080-f...

I checked a sampling of a few games there and the only one where it's not ahead by a solid margin at 2560x1440 is Far Cry 6... the game that I gave up trying to play because it would not run smoothly on my 3090 + 5900X even with the settings turned down.

Re: New GeForce RTX 4080 Super, RTX 4070 Ti Super, RTX 4070 Super

#93

AMD also released the 7600XT today. Not particularly interesting, but if you need/want a cheapish 16GB card you now have an option beside Intel. https://ir.amd.com/news-events/press-releases/detail/1176/am...

If you're looking to do gaming on Linux, AMD is much less hassle than Nvidia

Re: New GeForce RTX 4080 Super, RTX 4070 Ti Super, RTX 4070 Super

#94
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poor performance uplift? The 4080 is significantly faster than the 3090 with much lower power consumption!

The 4080/4090 are outliers of the generation though unfortunately, and also are themselves still a rather typical generational gain at that. Most of the rest of the 40xx stack was either unexpectedly slow or unexpectedly expensive (or both), such that performance per dollar stayed flat or regressed

Ah that makes sense. I don't pay close enough attention to the mid tier or the low end. I'm sure I saw at some point that there were problems with those cards but it's hard to remember when it doesn't stand out because people are negative about every GPU.

Re: New GeForce RTX 4080 Super, RTX 4070 Ti Super, RTX 4070 Super

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems they’re being very careful not to undercut their enterprise offerings or even the 4090. Assuming they’re not completely tone deaf, I can only assume this is the explanation.

The Jetson AGX Orin Developer Kit [1] has 64 GB of unified 256-bit LPDDR5 memory. It costs $2,000 and might get some people someplace interesting. [1]: https://developer.nvidia.com/embedded/learn/getting-started-...

Orin is kind of expensive for what it does. I think you'd be better off with a Mac Studio for $2,400 at this point.

Re: New GeForce RTX 4080 Super, RTX 4070 Ti Super, RTX 4070 Super

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Jetson AGX Orin Developer Kit [1] has 64 GB of unified 256-bit LPDDR5 memory. It costs $2,000 and might get some people someplace interesting. [1]: https://developer.nvidia.com/embedded/learn/getting-started-...

LPDDR5 doesn't have nearly as much memory bandwidth of GDDR6.

Per chip? Not the full story when discussing a system which can integrate multiple. The Orin has more memory bandwidth than an RTX 4050 even though the latter uses GDDR6. The M3 Max has double the bandwidth of the Orin, but also uses LPDDR5.

Re: New GeForce RTX 4080 Super, RTX 4070 Ti Super, RTX 4070 Super

#98
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you aware that cards containing “LLM” (40-80GB) levels of VRAM cost substantially more and the status quo for consumer cards hovers around 4-12GB, only going to 24GB for top end cards?

Of course

Your comment, pre-edit, had something of a severe tone given that consideration.

Having said that, I've trained/finetuned image models just fine on an RTX 2070 Super with 8 GB of VRAM. This was back when doing so was more fruitful than simply training a more robust model in the first place. Given that is the current status quo - I'm curious what sort of training you're doing whole-network that actually produces results that are noticeably better than doing something few-shot during inference or doing LoRA finetuning? The latter brings you back into the realm of tuning on low-VRAM configs.

In general, a single GPU's memory constraints are one of many when training a model _from scratch_. In that case, you're bottlenecked by data and data parallelism. You don't need one or a few GPU's, you need more than would fit in a consumer setup in the first place.

Re: New GeForce RTX 4080 Super, RTX 4070 Ti Super, RTX 4070 Super

#99

meh, I'm waiting until the Super Duper gets released.

It really does seem to be the same branding problem as the Dragon Ball series. How do you say “this version is more powerful than any before” after having said that a dozen times in a row?

Re: New GeForce RTX 4080 Super, RTX 4070 Ti Super, RTX 4070 Super

#100

Is it a good time to pick up a 3060 now or no?

Personal opinion:

3060 - no

3060 Ti - yes, it still a great card that I use today

However, if you can't find a 3060 Ti at a lower price point than the 4060 Ti... then I reluctantly have to say you are probably going to be better served with the 4060 Ti.

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