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Minimum Wage Clock

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Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#91

Post by ensignavenger »

A few things that should be noted: US Youth Minimum Wage is only in effect for the first 90 consecutive days of employment. I don't think its use is very widespread- probably used only by some youth summer employment or training programs- almost certainly not by any of the companies whose CEOs are mentioned.

It would also be interesting to show what % of the mentioned CEO's employees make minimum wage... I would wager it would be very close, if not 0. Minimum wage is usually paid by smaller, more local operations.

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#92

Post by oh_sigh »

margalabargala wrote: post #40
oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Spirit Level [1] makes a good argument for why more equal societies benefit everyone within them. At the very least, I think it's fair to say that "Satya Nadella having more money than me doesn't make my life worse" is not definitively true. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spirit_Level_(book)

I think you and the person you replied to are talking about two different things here. OP is saying "in terms of goals, the end goal should be reduction of poverty, not reduction of rich people". You're saying "in reality, data says that reduction of rich people tends to correlate with reduction of poverty", thus opening up reduction of rich people as one potential path towards the reduction of poverty. I don't think…

What society reduced it's rich people and increased the average richness? When I think of the concept my mind jumps to stalin eliminating the kulaks, or mao and the cultural revolution, or pol pot, which ended up helping destroy their society, not make everyone wealthier.

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#93

Post by whatindaheck »

npoc wrote: post #38
pylua wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

c) the minimum amount required to live peacefully and with dignity.

If you want that and you aren't producing enough value to warrant it, why should someone else pay for it? Find some more valuable work to do, work harder In the UK you'll get benefits to top up your wage anyway.

Someone has to collect the garbage, clean public restrooms, produce our food, etc.

We can't all be CEOs. Society depends on these "lowly" jobs. If the three jobs above ceased to exist we'd all be in trouble. They're all important enough to warrant a dignity wage.

In first grade we all learn that food, shelter, and water are the most basic living requirements. Add standard-of-living necessities such as internet, education, and healthcare access into the mix if you feel generous.

How can we afford NOT to provide basic requirements for these keystone jobs? Sure, they aren't "innovating" the newest phone or providing value to shareholders (gross), but in many ways they're far more important.

If you really want to own a Ferrari, or really anything extraneous, sure you should have to pull on those bootstraps. But not for food. Not for water. Not for shelter.

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#94

Post by ensignavenger »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #13

If we find this appalling, let's stop consuming the products of those who we feel are "overpaid" and visit the website, businessplace, or other endeavors of those we feel are "underpaid". Tim Cook gets paid a lot (and so do many AAPL employees), but I can't help but admit that my last 3 laptops I bought with my own cash were MBP, and not a system76 or framework. And I'm more likely to visit costco than a farmer's mar…

I think your local farmers market vendors and other local vendors are far more likely to be paying their employees minimum wage than the companies mentioned.

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#95

Post by LesZedCB »

npoc wrote: post #72
pastacacioepepe wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people who are happy to work for less I wonder where are these people. Do you know any? Would you be "happy" to work for less than minimum wage? > it creates an effect similar to communism Sure, gommunism is when minimum wage. Most of Europe is in fact gommunist today, while its bourgeoisie gets richer and richer by the year.

> I wonder where are these people. Do you know any? Would you be "happy" to work for less than minimum wage? I'd be very happy to work for less than the minimum wage if that's all my work was worth and the alternative was no job.. > Sure, gommunism is when minimum wage. Most of Europe is in fact gommunist today, while its bourgeoisie gets richer and richer by the year. The root cause of this wealth disparity is the f…

printing money obviously can't be the "root" cause because it's not an independent variable - it's the product of a social institution implementing policy which was decided on.

so, who decided? why? to benefit whom? i suppose therein lies the root cause.

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#96

Post by grayhatter »

npoc wrote: post #20

The minimum wage should be scrapped. It either a) prevents people who are happy to work for less obtain a job which is uneconomical at the minimum wage, or b) it creates an effect similar to communism, where everyone doing a job at or below a certain value gets paid the same, no matter what the value of their work is. This leads to the higher quality workers reducing their output, as they are only getting the paid th…

> a) prevents people who are happy to work for less obtain a job which is uneconomical at the minimum wage, or

Can you convince me this argument isn't also in support of slavery? (through fear)

Or was that actually the point and you mean to advocate for slavery?

Your arguments for b are equally malignant. If you will pay someone the minimum mage, for a minimum amount of work, and everyone else who could perform a higher standard doesn't because you refuse to pay them more than the minimum wage, good! Providing equal value of effort for value of compensation isn't communism, that's known as capitalism.

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#97

Post by anonuser123456 »

anigbrowl wrote: post #21
robertlagrant wrote: post #5

This site doesn't distinguish pay and not-pay, I think. Sundar Pichai is paid about $8m/year, not $100k/hour. The rest is stock. And even that vests over 3 years[0], not one year. [0] https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1652044/000130817923...

That's true, but CEOs (in general) are also in a unique position to create the appearance of value for stockholders through financial engineering, acquisitions, buybacks and so forth. They're able to leverage the resources of the company in unusual ways that don't necessarily have anything to do with operations or direct revenue, including firing other workers to improve the balance sheet. And once they're retired or…

So what? The principal agent people has been understood by investors since the time of Adam Smith. Everyone is already aware of this.

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#98

Post by ta1243 »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #13

If we find this appalling, let's stop consuming the products of those who we feel are "overpaid" and visit the website, businessplace, or other endeavors of those we feel are "underpaid". Tim Cook gets paid a lot (and so do many AAPL employees), but I can't help but admit that my last 3 laptops I bought with my own cash were MBP, and not a system76 or framework. And I'm more likely to visit costco than a farmer's mar…

https://knowyourmeme.com/editorials/guides/what-is-the-we-sh...

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#99

Post by AlexandrB »

kurisufag wrote: post #47
AlexandrB wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Satya Nadella having more money than me doesn't make my life worse; Are you sure about that? What if he spends that money supporting political figures and economic policies that make your life worse?

following this line of logic would mean that /anyone/ having more capital than you is evidence of wrongness, including social capital.

It's not evidence of wrongness, but money is power. Especially in a post "Citizens United" world. My point is that saying that the vast income inequality being discussed does no harm to those at the bottom is inaccurate. At the very least it reduces the ability of the average person to influence their own government.

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#100

Post by ta1243 »

renjimen wrote: post #36
maerF0x0 wrote: post #13

If we find this appalling, let's stop consuming the products of those who we feel are "overpaid" and visit the website, businessplace, or other endeavors of those we feel are "underpaid". Tim Cook gets paid a lot (and so do many AAPL employees), but I can't help but admit that my last 3 laptops I bought with my own cash were MBP, and not a system76 or framework. And I'm more likely to visit costco than a farmer's mar…

This is hard due to all the monopolies that exist in the modern world, and it's only possible for B2C businesses. The entire value chain is dominated by B2B where consumers have little say. I love System76 but their components are still from mega corps with stupid CEO salaries. The only effective ways to deal with this are progressive taxation and labor regulations. Bring back the 90+% top tax bracket that Thatcher a…

Stop taxing productive work.

Tim Cook's 100k/hour doesn't get taxed at the current top rate, let alone a new 90% rate.

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