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Launch HN: Rosebud (YC S19) – Turn game descriptions into browser games

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Re: Launch HN: Rosebud (YC S19) – Turn game descriptions into browser games

#91
post #4

Next up: an AI that can watch a deceptive mobile game ad and actually create the game that they're falsely advertising! Jokes aside, this is very cool. There's always the interesting tension of vendor lock-in vs. portability that defines the low-code space. Roblox's social ecosystem allowed it to make exclusivity to its platform a selling point to incentivize creators, but that might be harder for browser delivery -…

Or perhaps the AI can generate a somewhat passable mobile game that can then be filled with ads and micro transactions en masse to fill an app store?

Painful to think about, bringing down the cost of content generation

Re: Launch HN: Rosebud (YC S19) – Turn game descriptions into browser games

#92
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup definitely a challenge! That's what makes it fun We're utilizing AI Agents on two fronts. One is to generate actual games, which is how the user-created game you're playing there was made. And our next step is to enable creators to leverage those agents inside the game itself. When we arrive at that point the scenario you're showing above will be much more dynamic.

I just picture you walking around IRL calling yourself "Hi, I'm John... John-Rosebud" - this is great, one thing I recommend all the time is the book "Create games with Python" - but this is the new version of that endeavor. Ill try and make a tower defense game with it.

>>"I'm John-rosebud, so with that said, I'll leave you with a Chaow...

Chaow-rosebud"

Re: Launch HN: Rosebud (YC S19) – Turn game descriptions into browser games

#93

Impossible not to think about this -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_crash_of_1983

The good news is we've probably already been there and past it. Something like 50 new games release on Steam every day, 45 of them are probably garbage, and out of the five remaining ones the best one probably won't get noticed and the developer will quit making video games to go do something that pays rent.

So a new easier way to create games won't really make things meaningfully worse, I don't think. Especially because the quality bar will be quite low, it's not really going to crowd out the 'good stuff' that people are generally looking for. The store shelves (so to speak) are already so crowded that they are no longer how people find good games.

Re: Launch HN: Rosebud (YC S19) – Turn game descriptions into browser games

#94
I spent a couple hours playing with Rosebud this morning and I have a bit of feedback.

- I thought this would be a useful tool for prototyping, but as a programmer I would probably never use this to release a finished product. Maybe it would be better to target this kind of tool for prototyping instead of being able to make a full game that people will want to pay money for.

- I tried making a simple turn-based (american) football game. It's pretty good for getting some boilerplate set up, but sometimes it felt like it would have been easier to modify the code myself at times than try to explain what I wanted modified to the AI.

- It seems like whenever I did try to modify the code by hand, my changes would get wiped out by the next iteration generated by the AI. Maybe it was referencing the old code?

- I found getting assets into the game a bit tricky. Sometimes it would try updating the code to reference assets that we hadn't created yet. After that I couldn't get it to generate assets for me.

- Sometimes the AI would get stuck on something (e.g. generating an asset), or it would make a mistake. In that case I couldn't figure out a way to "go back" to a previous iteration of the game.

- At one point I tried to get the AI to make a change, which it did, but the code it generated had a large portion of the original code based removed and replaced with something like `// The rest of your code here.` which obviously broke the game.

Re: Launch HN: Rosebud (YC S19) – Turn game descriptions into browser games

#95
post #94

I spent a couple hours playing with Rosebud this morning and I have a bit of feedback. - I thought this would be a useful tool for prototyping, but as a programmer I would probably never use this to release a finished product. Maybe it would be better to target this kind of tool for prototyping instead of being able to make a full game that people will want to pay money for. - I tried making a simple turn-based (amer…

Thanks for summarizing these and spending a few hours trying out Rosebud!! Some detailed responses below:

"I found getting assets into the game a bit tricky. Sometimes it would try updating the code to reference assets that we hadn't created yet. After that I couldn't get it to generate assets for me."

This is an known issue we are trying to solve. But to give more color on why it's been tricky, since we are relying on a chat interface, our agent has properly determine is your ask includes an ask for asset generation, and if so, it has to determine whether an asset exists, and if it does not, whether to generate an asset, after which it needs to determine where to insert it and whether to modify other parts of the code when inserting. For instance, in the character templates, the AI can successfully modify an asset and character's description in one prompt, but sometimes it doesn't correctly interpret the instruction and pulls existing assets from the Phaser JS library. In short, it's quite finicky to get agents in prod to behave reliably 100% of the time. But we are working on it! Have many ideas of how to improve and are experimenting.

"I thought this would be a useful tool for prototyping, but as a programmer I would probably never use this to release a finished product. Maybe it would be better to target this kind of tool for prototyping instead of being able to make a full game that people will want to pay money for." & "I tried making a simple turn-based (american) football game. It's pretty good for getting some boilerplate set up, but sometimes it felt like it would have been easier to modify the code myself at times than try to explain what I wanted modified to the AI."

For users who already know how to develop, we've definitely heard similar validation that this is better for prototyping currently than for final games. I think this stems from the fact that 1) currently we don't have multi-file support and more advanced features like multiplayer yet, which makes it hard to compare with what's achievable by a more advanced game dev. And 2) the chat based approach is not always reliable, so it's frustrating sometimes to get what you want versus coding it up yourself. This is why we are also targeting less technical users, because they don't have many options available to them that can be as flexible as Rosebud. We have been delighted to see what these users create because some of the stuff gets very creative and addictive, even with our current limitations.

"It seems like whenever I did try to modify the code by hand, my changes would get wiped out by the next iteration generated by the AI. Maybe it was referencing the old code?"

This is a bug. If you don't mind sharing in the feedback channel specific cases when it does this, that would be super helpful. We've been fixing aspects of this bug over the last few week.

"Sometimes the AI would get stuck on something (e.g. generating an asset), or it would make a mistake. In that case I couldn't figure out a way to "go back" to a previous iteration of the game."

We have a history feature we are shipping in stages. Right now you can only regenerate, but we want to let users go back to different states of their game. Many users have wanted this feature and we just have to make some choices about what gets saved in the history (all llm changes or also manual, ... etc).

"At one point I tried to get the AI to make a change, which it did, but the code it generated had a large portion of the original code based removed and replaced with something like `// The rest of your code here.` which obviously broke the game."

This stems from a context length issue and is definitely annoying. We also have plans to implement diffs and other solutions that should let users run into this issue less.

Re: Launch HN: Rosebud (YC S19) – Turn game descriptions into browser games

#96
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to add some context, have a look at the memory systems in https://aithought.com/ Creating a model of that might be a fun experiment, at the moment often agents sit in stasis waiting for interaction or new information, humans live in a continuum, so for an agent to be useful, it might need to 'experience' time in order to have direction and agency.

Pretty cool link! You should submit that for discussion

I've just pinged the author in case they need to prepare or would like to submit themselves, or at least that it's a good time!

Re: Launch HN: Rosebud (YC S19) – Turn game descriptions into browser games

#97
post #52
post #4

Next up: an AI that can watch a deceptive mobile game ad and actually create the game that they're falsely advertising! Jokes aside, this is very cool. There's always the interesting tension of vendor lock-in vs. portability that defines the low-code space. Roblox's social ecosystem allowed it to make exclusivity to its platform a selling point to incentivize creators, but that might be harder for browser delivery -…

It is in fact a reference to "How to Dial a Murder", an episode of Columbo.

I've not seen the episode but I expect that is in turn a reference to Citizen Kane. In showbiz there is only one "Rosebud".

Re: Launch HN: Rosebud (YC S19) – Turn game descriptions into browser games

#99

Interesting project, thanks! Quick reactions from trying it out: One of my questions about this is the same as my question about "low-code" tools-- how they enable novices to debug errors or edge cases in the generated code. Example: I played the tower defense style game example you linked in the comments for a few minutes, and found a bug (or perhaps a gameplay edge case I'd want to treat differently: a second bulle…

Your reaction was almost exactly the same as mine. The very first thing that made me realize that Rosebud was a big deal was how consistently accurate the AI was when it came to figuring out what was wrong with a project. Having a debugging assistant that is that good, in my opinion, alone makes Rosebud a better option than most 2D game development environments for most people. The issues with the incomplete code get…

This comment says the exact opposite of what you're praising Rosebud for. The debugging not only wasn't helpful, it actively made the game unworkable and unrecoverable.

Re: Launch HN: Rosebud (YC S19) – Turn game descriptions into browser games

#100
post #98

wow, i just saw you on 3b1b's video on neural networks, where you were talking about relu v sigmoid... this is pretty cool, i hope to do something like this after high school:) all the best

Thanks for stopping by! That was a fun video to be a part of, Grant’s math videos in general are so well done. I think this video was from 2017. Funny thing is that even back in 2014/2015, which is when I officially changed my PhD from pure math to AI, I had the fear that it was a little late (was originally from Toronto where neural nets were worked on my Hinton and his students —-Ilya, James…etc….so I felt like I had my chance to join much earlier and missed it). Only after 2012 did we start to see super human performance of AI in some tasks (namely, at first, classification). It was the Lee Sedol match with AlphaGo that convinced me that the field became a lot more interesting after I got to Berkeley (and also the generative stuff coming out early days from Alyosha’s lab and Deep RL stuff from Pieter’s).

But look at the world now! It’s never too late, jump in and build if you are excited now!

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