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Tracking developer build times to decide if the M3 MacBook is worth upgrading

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Re: Tracking developer build times to decide if the M3 MacBook is worth upgrading

#91

Post by luuurker »

mgaunard wrote: post #28
mgaunard wrote: post #19

[flagged]

[flagged]

> A laptop compromises performance in order to be lightweight, portable, and stylish.

I'd agree with this ~2 years ago. Then I bought a MBP with a M1 Max and honestly I don't see many compromises with this machine. Coming from a 2019 Macbook Pro, it was a night and day difference. Ports, performance, efficiency, heat, battery life, etc.

Now, of course this laptop doesn't have the fastest CPU or GPU available, but it's so fast that it's no longer a compromise for me. It's actually faster than the desktop I upgraded a few months before buying this laptop, and since then Apple has released faster machines.

Re: Tracking developer build times to decide if the M3 MacBook is worth upgrading

#92

Post by boringuser2 »

cedws wrote: post #85
throwaway892238 wrote: post #17

MacBooks are a waste of money. You can be just as productive with a machine just as fast for 1/2 the price that doesn't include the Apple Tax. Moreover, if your whole stack (plus your test suite) doesn't fit in memory, what's the point of buying an extremely expensive laptop? Not to mention constantly replacing them just because a newer, shinier model is released? If you're just going to test one small service, that…

It's OK to just not like Apple. You don't have to justify your own feelings with pejoratives towards other peoples' choice of laptop.

You really need to learn what a"pejorative" is before using the term publicly.

Re: Tracking developer build times to decide if the M3 MacBook is worth upgrading

#93

Post by wtetzner »

fsckboy wrote: post #89

I feel like there is a correlation between fast-twitch programming muscles and technical debt. Some coding styles that are rewarded by fast compile times can be more akin to "throw it at the wall, see if it sticks" style development. Have you ever been summoned to help a junior colleague who is having a problem, and you immediately see some grievous errors, errors that give you pause. You point the first couple out,…

There's a lot of value in a short iteration loop when debugging unexpected behavior. Often you end up needing to keep trying different variations until you understand what's going on.

Re: Tracking developer build times to decide if the M3 MacBook is worth upgrading

#94

Post by kla-s »

t-writescode wrote: post #24
mgaunard wrote: post #19

[flagged]

I can’t use a desktop on a ferry or plane or at my Aunt’s over Thanksgiving

Ferry* and maybe plane i understand, but especially the later is changing with many flights offering (complimentary) internet service afaik, but your aunt i don't. The alternative, to me normal setup would be using a workstation at the office and then remoting into it via SSH (behind a VPN, VSCode supports this great). This allows for a thinner client (eg Macbooks Air) which need less replacement and where battery runtime/portability can be weighed more. Sure now connectivity is a concern but to me that's mostly a non issue where i travel/the work spots i choose, but i guess it can become more of a problem in other (less developed) parts of the world...

* this will probably also change with naval Starlink becoming deployed more...

Re: Tracking developer build times to decide if the M3 MacBook is worth upgrading

#95

Post by boringuser2 »

I get a bit of a toxic vibe from a couple comments in that article.

Chiefly, I think the problem is that the CTO solved the wrong problem: the right problem to solve includes a combination of assessing why company public opinion is generating mass movements of people wanting a new MacBook literally every year, if this is even worth responding to at all (it isn't), and keeping employees happy.

Most employees are reasonsble enough to not be bothered if they don't get a new MacBook every year.

Employers should already be addressing outdated equipment concerns.

Wasting developer time on a problem that is easily solvable in one minute isn't worthwhile. You upgrade the people 2-3 real generations behind. That should already have been in the pipeline, resources notwhistanding.

I just dislike this whole exercise because it feels like a perfect storm of technocratic performativity, short sighted "metric" based management, rash consumerism, etc.

Re: Tracking developer build times to decide if the M3 MacBook is worth upgrading

#96

Post by luuurker »

Unfrozen0688 wrote: post #72
orenlindsey wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple Silicon devices can get the same performance as a desktop in a laptop size. The only reason to get a desktop is if you need the Ultra chip. And, the laptop gives you extra freedom for very, very little sacrifice (at least for Apple Silicon devices). I don't see any way you can argue for a desktop.

Not possible. Sustained performance will not be the same. Desktop will be vastly better.

I have the first generation of the M1 (M1 Max) and this is the first Apple laptop I own that doesn't seem to hit any thermal or power limit. I do use an app to spin the fans faster when doing something like encoding a blu-ray movie with HandBrake, but it keeps going for hours without any noticeable drop in performance.

If you look at stress tests from a M1 on a Macbook Pro and a M1 on a Mac desktop, performance is similar. There might be a difference on sustained performance on the M1 Air, but that's because it doesn't have any fans.

Re: Tracking developer build times to decide if the M3 MacBook is worth upgrading

#97

Post by jiggawatts »

LASR wrote: post #90

Solid analysis. A word of warning from personal experience: I am part of a medium-sized software company (2k employees). A few years ago, we wanted to improve dev productivity. Instead of going with new laptops, we decided to explore offloading the dev stack over to AWS boxes. This turned out to be a multi-year project with a whole team of devs (~4) working on it full-time. In hindsight, the tradeoff wasn't worth it.…

https://xkcd.com/1205/

Re: Tracking developer build times to decide if the M3 MacBook is worth upgrading

#98

Post by Reason077 »

tomaskafka wrote: post #69
lawrjone wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's interesting you saw less of an improvement in the M2 than we saw in this article. I guess not that surprising given the different compilation toolchains though, especially as even with the Go toolchain you can see how specific specs lend themselves to different parts of the build process (such as the additional memory helping linker performance). You're not the only one to comment that the M3 is weirdly capped…

That's what Xcode benchmarks seem to say. Yep, there appears to be no reason for getting M3 Pro instead of M2 Pro, but my guess is that after this (unfortunate) adjustment, they got the separation they wanted (a clear hierarchy of Max > Pro > base chip for both CPU and GPU power), and can then improve all three chips by a similar amount in the future generations.

> ”Yep, there appears to be no reason for getting M3 Pro instead of M2 Pro”

There is if you care about efficiency / battery life.

Re: Tracking developer build times to decide if the M3 MacBook is worth upgrading

#100

Post by gumballindie »

isthisreallife9 wrote: post #60

[flagged]

You need to be a little bit more gentle and understanding. A lot of folks have no idea there are alternatives to apple’s products that are faster, of higher quality, and upgradeable. Many seem to be blown away by stuff that has been available with other brands for a while - fast RAM speeds being one of them. Few years back when i broke free from apple i was shocked how fast and reliable other products were. Not to mention the size of my ram is larger than an entry level storage option with apple’s laptops.
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