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Apollo 11 vs. USB-C Chargers (2020)

forrestheller.com

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Re: Apollo 11 vs. USB-C Chargers (2020)

#91
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you expect there to be one? It’s all the same stuff and has been for decades.

I expect nation state actors to have immensely more access to computing power than the commercial sector, is that controversial?

Because the big ones spend more money. I expect Google etc. has access to more computing power than most nation states do.

Re: Apollo 11 vs. USB-C Chargers (2020)

#92
post #16

> Apollo 11 spacecraft contains 4 computers Analog computers don't get the respect they deserve. There's one more computer, the FCC. The Flight Control Computer is an analog computer in the Saturn V that controlled the rocket gimbals. It's a two-foot cylinder weighing almost 100 pounds.

i think it's (unintentionally) misleading to describe analog 'computers' as 'computers'. what distinguishes digital computers from other digital hardware is that they're turing-complete (if given access to enough memory), and there isn't any similar notion in the analog domain

the only reason they have the same name is that they were both originally built to replace people cranking out calculations on mechanical desk calculators, who were also called 'computers'

the flight control 'computer' has more in common with an analog synthesizer module than it does with a cray-1, the agc, an arduino, this laptop, or these chargers, which are by comparison almost indistinguishable

Re: Apollo 11 vs. USB-C Chargers (2020)

#93
post #92
post #16

> Apollo 11 spacecraft contains 4 computers Analog computers don't get the respect they deserve. There's one more computer, the FCC. The Flight Control Computer is an analog computer in the Saturn V that controlled the rocket gimbals. It's a two-foot cylinder weighing almost 100 pounds.

i think it's (unintentionally) misleading to describe analog 'computers' as 'computers'. what distinguishes digital computers from other digital hardware is that they're turing-complete (if given access to enough memory), and there isn't any similar notion in the analog domain the only reason they have the same name is that they were both originally built to replace people cranking out calculations on mechanical desk…

They both do the same thing compute an output from given inputs. So they are properly distinguished from each other on how they do the computing. They both deserve the name 'computer'.

Re: Apollo 11 vs. USB-C Chargers (2020)

#94
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i think it's (unintentionally) misleading to describe analog 'computers' as 'computers'. what distinguishes digital computers from other digital hardware is that they're turing-complete (if given access to enough memory), and there isn't any similar notion in the analog domain the only reason they have the same name is that they were both originally built to replace people cranking out calculations on mechanical desk…

They both do the same thing compute an output from given inputs. So they are properly distinguished from each other on how they do the computing. They both deserve the name 'computer'.

only in the same sense that a machinist's micrometer, an optical telescope, an analog television set, an acoustic guitar, a letterpress printing press, a car's manual transmission, a fountain pen, a nomogram, and a transistor also 'compute an output from given inputs'

do you want to call them all 'computers' now?

Re: Apollo 11 vs. USB-C Chargers (2020)

#96

>> others point out that the LVDC actually contains triply-redundant logic. The logic gives 3 answers and the voting mechanism picks the winner. This is a very minor point... but three of something isn't triple redundancy: it's double redundancy. Two is single redundancy, one is no redundancy. Unless the voting mechanism can somehow produce a correct answer from differing answers from all three implementations of the…

I find it fascinating the two different schools of thought exposed in the LVDC and the AGC.

The LVDC was a highly redundant can not fail design. the AGC had no redundancy and was designed to recover quickly if failure occurred.

Re: Apollo 11 vs. USB-C Chargers (2020)

#97

Weird question maybe, but does anyone keep track of quantitative or qualitative data that measures the discrepancy between consumer (commercial) and government computer technology? TBH, it's kind of amazing that a custom computer from 50 years ago has the specs of a common IC/SoC today, but those specs scale with time.

There is no difference anymore, the only difference is the scale. Back then, consumers got nothing, governments got largge computers (room sized+), then consumers got microcomputers (desktop sized), governments got larger mainframes, consumers got PCs, government got big-box supercomputers,... And now? Consumers get x86_64 servers , governments get x86_64 servers, and the only difference is how much money you have, h…

Let's not go too far either. Money and determination still buys results. A disposable government system might be stuffed with large FPGAs, ASICs and other exotics. Which would rarely be found in any consumer system - certainly not in quantity. A government system might pour a lot of money in the design of these and the cost of each unit. So, perhaps not much difference for each standard CPU and computer node but still as much difference as ever in the rest?

Re: Apollo 11 vs. USB-C Chargers (2020)

#98
The ariicle was a lot of fun however I felt it missed a important aspect about the respective computers. IO channels. I don't know about the USB charge controllers. But the AGC as a flight computer had a bunch of inputs and outputs. Does a Richtek RT7205 have enough IO?

Re: Apollo 11 vs. USB-C Chargers (2020)

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no difference anymore, the only difference is the scale. Back then, consumers got nothing, governments got largge computers (room sized+), then consumers got microcomputers (desktop sized), governments got larger mainframes, consumers got PCs, government got big-box supercomputers,... And now? Consumers get x86_64 servers , governments get x86_64 servers, and the only difference is how much money you have, h…

I was asking about anyone tracking the disparity between nation-state computing power and commercially available computing power. This seems like something that's uncontroversial.

"Nation state" doesn't mean "country". It certainly doesn't mean "rich country".

Re: Apollo 11 vs. USB-C Chargers (2020)

#100
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They both do the same thing compute an output from given inputs. So they are properly distinguished from each other on how they do the computing. They both deserve the name 'computer'.

only in the same sense that a machinist's micrometer, an optical telescope, an analog television set, an acoustic guitar, a letterpress printing press, a car's manual transmission, a fountain pen, a nomogram, and a transistor also 'compute an output from given inputs' do you want to call them all 'computers' now?

What's wrong with that? They are. We can always make the finer distinction of "Von Neumann architecture inspired digital electronic computer" if you wish to exclude the examples you've given. After all, anything which transforms a particular input to a particular output in a consistent fashion could be considered a computer which implements a particular function. I would say - don't confuse the word's meaning with the object's function and simply choose a context in which a word refers to a particular meaning, adapt to others contexts and translate, and simply deal with the fact that there is no firm division between computer and not-computer out in the word somewhere apart from people and their context-rich communications. If the context in which you're operating with an interlocutor is clear enough for you to jump to a correction of usage ... simply don't; beyond verifying your translation is correct, of course. As you're already doing this - likely without realising it - by taking care in doing so consciously you're likely to find your communications more efficient, congenial, and illuminating than they otherwise would be.
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