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Frustration, Disappointment And Apathy: My Years At Microsoft

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Re: Frustration, Disappointment And Apathy: My Years At Microsoft

#91
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other examples include Windows Phone and XBox both of which seemingly came from nowhere in a 'just get it done' style. There's some real love and skill that's been put into the XBox for example, just browse around it some time. My perspective is coloured by the developer stuff as that's what I'm most interested in.

Windows Phone came out 3+ years (almost 4) after the iPhone. It was the most obvious and slowest product launch in recent memory. It also hasn't been a great success. If Windows Phone is proof that Microsoft is doing well....It also wasn't some spontaneous/organic product that just sprung up. It was a massive coordinated company-wide event that took years to "pull off". As for the Xbox, it's a huge loss leaders. The…

As for the Xbox, it's a huge loss leaders. The division is billions in the red. XBox 360 (which had a 33% failure rate) started to make a bit of money last year (or maybe the year before that)..but it's a fraction of what they've put into it.

From what I've gathered, the entertainment division has been making a profit since 2008. It's tough to get solid numbers on the contribution of the 360 to that, since the division contained things like the Zune for a while. I would be surprised if they don't end up profiting overall on the 360.

Sure, that might not make up for the losses on the original Xbox, but that generation was always about gaining a foothold, not making a profit. MS didn't have a horse in race until a year after the release of the PS2. To go from that to the market share that the 360 commands right now is impressive.

Eve that said I don't think making money on console sales was ever the main reason MS got into the market in the first place. I think they realized that gaming consoles were going to become an important part of household entertainment, even outside of gaming itself. Consoles are becoming one-stop shops for all forms of enterainment nowadays. I use my systems to watch disc-based media, streaming off other devices in my house, Netflix, etc. MS would be in a really tough spot if they had let Sony snatch up this market without putting up a fight.

Re: Frustration, Disappointment And Apathy: My Years At Microsoft

#92
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Realistically, what "great products" has MS produced? From my perspective, MS has always been vastly better at winning the market because they're nearly always competing with inferior products.

They are at least mature products. I've worked on kernel code in Sun product, linux and Windows. And Windows was the only one done professionally, with mature complete APIs and some kind of design. linux was the least mature. The kernel was a maze, there were 3 similar-but-fatally-different APIs for modules depending on where you graft them in (app, loadable driver, kernel driver), only 1 model of memory mapping was…

>linux was the least mature.

This I can agree with. I'm surprised that MS was well done though because their API appears to be a mess if Wine is any indication.

Re: Frustration, Disappointment And Apathy: My Years At Microsoft

#93
post #24
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are ways to get changes made in Big Co. Very true. I have this book in my head that might one day get written. Title would be something like "Intreprenauring: Innovating within Large Stupid Organizations" with a focus on practical "hacks" for getting stuff done. Probably all been said by Dilbert already though.

> "Intreprenauring: Innovating within Large Stupid Organizations" Please write that book

How about these?

http://www.amazon.com/Engineering-Culture-Commitment-High-te...

http://www.amazon.com/neanderthals-work-people-politics-driv...

http://www.amazon.com/Accidental-Leadership-Personal-Journey...

http://www.amazon.com/The-Only-Sane-Working-Here/dp/00716087...

Re: Frustration, Disappointment And Apathy: My Years At Microsoft

#94
post #10

My story is similar. I was looking to get a tech job out of college a couple of years back, and Microsoft picked me up first (Google was also interested with talks of similar offers but they moved much slower). It was all interesting and new for the first few months. The team was going through chaotic transitions at the time, so I was shuffled around many challenging projects, all with tight deadlines and technical b…

I'm starting at Microsoft out of college in July and this worries me. Could I ask which product you were on?

Re: Frustration, Disappointment And Apathy: My Years At Microsoft

#96
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the opposite. Honorable people (like Stark) tend to assume their enemies are like them. Big mistake. They assume that, when confronted with proof of their own dishonesty, they'll shrink away quietly. Oh no. It's the opposite. Dishonest people have no sense of shame. They don't care that they're dishonest, but they'll do anything to prevent other people from knowing it. If you want to rise in the typical corporat…

Gee, you sound as if you'd been reading the NY Times piece on Walmart de Mexico...

Hmm, it isn't clear if you're not-so-subtly putting him down. I find such clear writing to be refreshing. Not a whole lot of people saying these things.

I, for one, found the line about "no enemies at all" to ring too true.

Re: Frustration, Disappointment And Apathy: My Years At Microsoft

#97

I can empathize with the OP, but why go through the hassle of causing a commotion, and making it a Techcrunch story? Just leave amicably - they're NOT forcing you to work. You can get up and leave anytime you want, which is the mature thing to do.

If an employee does NOT publicly speak about her or his experience she or he is providing the company with less of an incentive to value his or her experience there. The public image of a company has value to a company and if the company knows that an employee can speak out about the employee's experience at the company they will have more of an incentive to ensure that employee's experience is pleasant because to do…

This one can be taken even farther and be applied to the "don't discuss your salary". My opinion has always been that this rule exists so that companies can continue to underpay employees.

Re: Frustration, Disappointment And Apathy: My Years At Microsoft

#98
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks so much for sharing this! Your other comment(link: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3871688 ) and this post show(link: http://skloverworkingwisdom.com/blog/index.php/performance-i... ) how common this is. In my personal experience, even startups do this. Which I guess is more fault to US law having high severance cost, than people being sociopaths. In fact, don't try to anthropomorphize the companies (Bryan…

"Fault to US law having high severance cost"? No. That's not it. When you factor in morale damage and the amount of managerial time spent on them, it's more expensive to run a PIP than to let someone go with a severance package. PIPs are paper shields in a lawsuit, and do nothing about disparagement, which severance contracts usually cover. A PIP doesn't actually establish that the employee was an objective underperf…

PIPs have a purpose. Just as there has to be an orderly and codified system for promotion in larger companies (to avoid favoritism, etc.) there generally has to be a codified system for termination due to under-performance. A manager shouldn't just be able to fire one of his team arbitrarily when they haven't broken any rules/policy.

PIPs provide a codified, constructive way to deal with these situations; they make explicit to the employee that they're on the edge of being let go, and they force the manager through a process to demonstrate that the employee is not appropriately qualified or motivated for their job. No manager _wants_ to do a PIP. Frankly, it's usually easier to just pawn an underperformer off on on another team. But the reality is there are appropriate situations to do one where just passing the buck is unacceptable.

I have seen folks get PIP'ed and let go, and I've seen some come back and have a good career with the company. (Obviously the latter is less common.) In some cases where you have a young guy who just isn't stepping up, the PIP process serves as a wake-up call that the manager isn't kidding around.

Re: Frustration, Disappointment And Apathy: My Years At Microsoft

#99
post #80
post #64

In my experience, I haven't gotten along with 9/10 people I've met who work at -- and are passionate about -- Microsoft. It's not because they're not driven to succeed (they are). Nor is it because they're overly confident. It's because all 9 have lacked empathy and/or the ability to listen. Now I can tolerate that, provided you do great work. I've learned that if you can't separate the art from the artist, you may n…

Realistically, what "great products" has MS produced? From my perspective, MS has always been vastly better at winning the market because they're nearly always competing with inferior products.

A non-exhaustive list of great MSFT products (I work for Google, no pro-MSFT bias here beyond a dash of meta-contrarianism):

* Windows 95

* Windows XP

* Windows 7

* Office 2010

* Zune HD

* Windows Phone 7

* XBox

* XBox 360

* Mice and keyboards

I'm sure I'm forgetting tons of stuff. Before you start pointing out minor bugs or flaws in these products, or making irrelevant arguments (e.g. "Zune HD had low market share"), remember that Google products aren't perfect either. Google Docs has no equation editor (Word does). Android sucks as an mp3 player compared to Windows Phone 7. I can't play Starcraft 2 on Chrome OS. Etc.

Re: Frustration, Disappointment And Apathy: My Years At Microsoft

#100
post #94
post #10

My story is similar. I was looking to get a tech job out of college a couple of years back, and Microsoft picked me up first (Google was also interested with talks of similar offers but they moved much slower). It was all interesting and new for the first few months. The team was going through chaotic transitions at the time, so I was shuffled around many challenging projects, all with tight deadlines and technical b…

I'm starting at Microsoft out of college in July and this worries me. Could I ask which product you were on?

I wouldn't worry about it if I were you. Anyone who thinks his experiences on one team in a 100,000 person company (or even a 10,000 person company!) are in any way broadly representative is full of shit. Microsoft has some dysfunctional teams, as does anyone, but it has plenty of good ones, too. I worked there for quite a few years after college and it was a great learning experience. I had friends in other teams who had both good and bad experiences. It just depends.

OP was an "account manager," which means that anything he tells you has absolutely no relevance to the engineering side of things.

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