Windows Protected Print Mode • Hacker News Board

Re: Windows Protected Print Mode

#91

Post by hedora » Mon, Dec 18, 2023, 3:19 AM UTC

wannacboatmovie wrote: post #15

hedora wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the article, they're moving people to IPP (the protocol CUPS uses), with the difference that it will warn if configured with encryption disabled (I can't be bothered to check to see what CUPS does for transport encryption by default, but according to MS, it does support it out of the box). Other things they mention are just a function of having access to the source code (CUPS drivers are mostly open sour…

> According to the article, they're moving people to IPP (the protocol CUPS uses) I'd hate to spoil your revisionist history, but Windows has supported IPP out of the box since Windows 2000 (in 1999), right around the same time CUPS had its very first release. CUPS did not invent IPP. What eventually became IPP was initially proposed by Novell ('memba them?) back in 1996. The difference is Windows already had this en…

So, then what is this announcement? They're moving to WPP, which is... IPP but it warns on crypto downgrade, and is maybe incompatible?

I thought Windows defaulted to SMB for printer discovery, and not IPP. Anyway, from the announcement, they don't seem to be improving on what I'm used to getting from CUPS.

Re: Windows Protected Print Mode

#92

Post by hulitu » Mon, Dec 18, 2023, 7:37 AM UTC

> Over the past year, the MORSE team has been working in collaboration with the Windows Print team to modernize the Windows Print System

So that's why printing in Win 10 is a mess, with no standard print dialogue and no print preview.

Re: Windows Protected Print Mode

#93

Post by izacus » Mon, Dec 18, 2023, 10:14 AM UTC

whatever1 wrote: post #56

Question, why the printers cannot act like web servers? Just receive a REST api request and then proceed to do their own thing (aka drive the printer to execute the request). Why my computer needs to know how to operate the printer?

This is literally what's proposed here. The keyword is "Driverless printing" or in some contexts "IPP".

But sometimes that's not quite enough, the world of hardware is complex. Not every printer is your office Letter sized paper spewing box.

Re: Windows Protected Print Mode

#94

Post by tonyedgecombe » Mon, Dec 18, 2023, 10:45 AM UTC

pxx wrote: post #74

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need the user to select paper trays, simplex or duplex, etc. For bigger devices that might include document finishing options. Label printers might have a guillotine. Print/release where you need a pin at the printer to release the document are becoming more prevalent. All this requires some interaction with the user. IPP Everywhere covers a lot but I'm guessing there will be some niche requirements that it misse…

This happens at a different layer than the printer driver; you just need to modify the postscript. Paper trays, duplex, duplex with tumble, and cutting are specifiable in postscript; this is `setpagedevice`. Even things like custom stapler options (staple first two pages, etc) can be specified. See something like https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/bpp01888 for docs

As I said IPP Everywhere covers a lot but there will always be requirements that haven't been considered.

Re: Windows Protected Print Mode

#95

Post by tonyedgecombe » Mon, Dec 18, 2023, 10:53 AM UTC

ThinkBeat wrote: post #82

Is this some conspiracy with printer vendors to drastically increase sales? I have two old photo printers that work quite well and replacing them would be extremely expensive. The driver among other things contains features to match up color profiles. I have label printers that are old that also work well. All rely on custom printer drivers. I hope this new system is going to be phased in over a long timeframe, so I…

You really need to blame the printer manufacturers. Microsoft released XPS based drivers with Windows Vista in 2007. It was back ported to XP and in beta for a long time before release. Despite that the printer manufacturers are still releasing V3 drivers (GDI based) today.

It seems they won't move forward unless they are forced to. It's about time.

Re: Windows Protected Print Mode

#96

Post by yrro » Mon, Dec 18, 2023, 2:47 PM UTC

hedora wrote: post #91

wannacboatmovie wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> According to the article, they're moving people to IPP (the protocol CUPS uses) I'd hate to spoil your revisionist history, but Windows has supported IPP out of the box since Windows 2000 (in 1999), right around the same time CUPS had its very first release. CUPS did not invent IPP. What eventually became IPP was initially proposed by Novell ('memba them?) back in 1996. The difference is Windows already had this en…

So, then what is this announcement? They're moving to WPP, which is... IPP but it warns on crypto downgrade, and is maybe incompatible? I thought Windows defaulted to SMB for printer discovery, and not IPP. Anyway, from the announcement, they don't seem to be improving on what I'm used to getting from CUPS.

Maybe the announcement means "IPP Everywhere" instead of "IPP".

That is the extensions to IPP that adds network discovery (via multicast DNS) and 'driverless' printing (by mandating that prints support standard document formats). It probably also includes a standardised way for client to find out what paper sizes, duplex, quality, etc. settings the prints has.