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23andMe changed its terms of service to prevent hacked customers from suing

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Re: 23andMe changed its terms of service to prevent hacked customers from suing

#91

Post by geoelectric »

mrweasel wrote: post #65
d2049 wrote: post #21

I would have presumed that security-minded people, which includes those who work in tech, would not so easily give away their genome, and that most of 23andMe's customers are a slice of the general population. But then I read about things like WorldCoin and that people who go to startup parties jump at the chance to give away scans of their retinas and I'm befuddled. Why would anyone willingly do that?

The same people believed crypto-currency, infinite growth, social media and many other things. At least 23andMe provided actual value, to some at least. What I find strange is that 23andMe did not automatically delete data after 30 days, or at the very least took it offline, only to be available on request. Notify people that their results are available and inform them that the data will be available for 30 days afte…

Their service is selling you a dashboard over your genetic data that’s continually updated for new gene correlation studies and ancestry matches. It’s not really the one and done “Promethease” style analysis service you’re thinking of.

Re: 23andMe changed its terms of service to prevent hacked customers from suing

#92

Post by 6177c40f »

quantified wrote: post #63
6177c40f wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I don't think that that's obvious. At least in the US, there are already protections for genetic information (including but not limited to GINA [1]). In the long run, I think keeping your genetic information private will be untenable- the potential benefits will outweigh the drawbacks. Plus, anyone sufficiently motivated could get your DNA somehow, you shed your DNA everywhere you go, no getting around that. So w…

What benefit will there be? And why do you assume that it won't be accompanied by negatives? The problem with all tech is that people direct its use, and the sole agent of evil in this world is people.

> What benefit will there be?

Knowing your genetic information is currently of limited value for the majority of people, this I admit. I believe that in the future, however, the promise of precision medicine will be realized, and that having one's genetic information readily available will be crucial to receiving the best treatment possible for many diseases.

For example, take Crohn's Disease (and other inflammatory diseases more generally). The current thinking is that it is highly influenced by genetics, and that a number of different genotypes exist that can result in the phenotype we refer to as Crohn's Disease. It's conceivable that having a better understanding of someone's specific genotype could lead to more precise treatment of their condition.

> And why do you assume that it won't be accompanied by negatives?

I explicitly don't assume this, I said that the benefits will outweigh the drawbacks.

> the sole agent of evil in this world is people.

This is a specious argument. By that same measure, the sole agent of good in the world is also people. But that's irrelevant. Tech can be used both to harm and to benefit, and I'm arguing that personal gene sequencing can and will be used to provide more benefit than harm.

Re: 23andMe changed its terms of service to prevent hacked customers from suing

#93

Post by dgacmu »

snapcaster wrote: post #11
adocomplete wrote: post #2

Thanks for sharing. Will def opt out and roll into the class action suits already filed. Take security seriously people. Especially when dealing with super sensitive data.

[flagged]

Well, let's see - because I wanted to have children, and I didn't know who my biological father was, so I wanted to understand if my wife and I were likely to carry any of the same dangerous recessive genes? And I wanted to know if there were likely any big, detectable gotchas coming up as I got older.

And because, in the process, I discovered a couple of half brothers.

My life is better because of the knowledge I got from genetic testing.

(It also wasn't a "random" startup to me; I had it recommended by someone I trust who knows the founder.)

Re: 23andMe changed its terms of service to prevent hacked customers from suing

#94

Post by Dma54rhs »

d2049 wrote: post #21

I would have presumed that security-minded people, which includes those who work in tech, would not so easily give away their genome, and that most of 23andMe's customers are a slice of the general population. But then I read about things like WorldCoin and that people who go to startup parties jump at the chance to give away scans of their retinas and I'm befuddled. Why would anyone willingly do that?

Poor and desperate people don't have the luxury thinking of these first world privacy issues. There a reasin Altman and launched it where they did.

Re: 23andMe changed its terms of service to prevent hacked customers from suing

#96

Post by 6177c40f »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #32
6177c40f wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I don't think that that's obvious. At least in the US, there are already protections for genetic information (including but not limited to GINA [1]). In the long run, I think keeping your genetic information private will be untenable- the potential benefits will outweigh the drawbacks. Plus, anyone sufficiently motivated could get your DNA somehow, you shed your DNA everywhere you go, no getting around that. So w…

> In the long run, I think keeping your genetic information private will be untenable- the potential benefits will outweigh the drawbacks. Can you give an example? > Plus, anyone sufficiently motivated could get your DNA somehow, you shed your DNA everywhere you go, no getting around that. That assumes there's someone out to get you specifically. That's like saying there's no point in having 2FA or strong passwords,…

> Can you give an example?

See my other comment, but in short I essentially mean the true realization of "precision medicine" and gaining a greater understanding of how different genotypes result in disease, information which can be used guide treatment and to develop better treatments.

> That assumes there's someone out to get you specifically.

Not entirely true- the ability to reconstruct genotypes from environmental samples gets better all the time. I'd imagine that even with current technology, a sufficiently motivated organization could sample various locations to reconstruct the genomes of people who often visit there. With enough info, they could start building webs of genetic relation. From there, all they'd need is access to a database of samples from known individuals (which, as we can see, already exists), can chances are they could quickly deanonymize future samples. The only thing that could stop such mass collection is proper regulation.

> That's like saying there's no point in having 2FA or strong passwords, because the FSB, the FBI and Mossad can get in anyway.

Unlike your password, your DNA is unencrypted and gets spread everywhere.

Re: 23andMe changed its terms of service to prevent hacked customers from suing

#97

Post by switchbak »

d2049 wrote: post #21

I would have presumed that security-minded people, which includes those who work in tech, would not so easily give away their genome, and that most of 23andMe's customers are a slice of the general population. But then I read about things like WorldCoin and that people who go to startup parties jump at the chance to give away scans of their retinas and I'm befuddled. Why would anyone willingly do that?

You didn't need to supply accurate information, this isn't a bank here with any validation of your identity.

Re: 23andMe changed its terms of service to prevent hacked customers from suing

#98

Post by 6177c40f »

croes wrote: post #73
6177c40f wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I don't think that that's obvious. At least in the US, there are already protections for genetic information (including but not limited to GINA [1]). In the long run, I think keeping your genetic information private will be untenable- the potential benefits will outweigh the drawbacks. Plus, anyone sufficiently motivated could get your DNA somehow, you shed your DNA everywhere you go, no getting around that. So w…

>Plus, anyone sufficiently motivated could get your DNA somehow, you shed your DNA everywhere you go, no getting around that. But these people need to get close to you. 23andme made it easy for someone who could have been on the other side of the globe.

I really don't see how this changes the threat model. If anything, I'm less worried about someone on the other side of the globe.

Re: 23andMe changed its terms of service to prevent hacked customers from suing

#99

Post by arwhatever »

lp0_on_fire wrote: post #59
throwaway092323 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They probably know that it doesn't hold water legally. The hope is to victim blame as much as possible so that fewer people sue them in the first place. The next step will be to "remind" people about the TOS that they totally agreed to.

Exactly. Same reason construction vehicles have "Stay back 200 feet: not responsible for broken windshields" written on the back.

“Not responsible for black eye if something falls from your vehicle and damages my vehicle.”

Re: 23andMe changed its terms of service to prevent hacked customers from suing

#100

Post by switchbak »

snapcaster wrote: post #11
adocomplete wrote: post #2

Thanks for sharing. Will def opt out and roll into the class action suits already filed. Take security seriously people. Especially when dealing with super sensitive data.

[flagged]

Why would you be angry at someone that didn't do anything that negatively affects you? Do you get mad at people that eat unhealthy food?
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