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Hetzner is terminating contracts with all users who had a Russian postal address

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Re: Hetzner is terminating contracts with all users who had a Russian postal address

#91

Post by dijit »

jacquesm wrote: post #33
dijit wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It will take effect from 31 January 2024 that's under 6 (working) weeks from today. I'm trying to read where you got 2 years from, but I can't find it. Was there an additional warning from before? or are you suggesting that when the Russian military invaded Ukraine that every Russian business and citizen should have pulled out of using European services?

There was a massive thread on HN at the time and the general consensus was that if you are a Russian entity relying on Western infrastructure that you should probably activate your contingency plans. The writing has been on the wall for all that time and with authorities coming down harder and harder on companies that are still doing business with Russia it is in a way surprising it took Hetzner this long to act.

ok, so you're saying there was an implied warning, not that there actually was one.

Which is what I suspected. A formal warning is the only one that matters in terms of actual notice.

Re: Hetzner is terminating contracts with all users who had a Russian postal address

#92

Post by dnh44 »

gizmo wrote: post #66
flohofwoe wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about... what about... what about... Western Europe really tried after 1990 to integrate with Eastern Europe and it worked pretty well for most former socialist countries, but not with Russia and Belarus. And not for lack of trying on behalf of the Western European countries, if anything the West had been too naive for too long.

I'm pointing out clear hypocrisy. That's not whataboutism.

Crying about "whataboutism" is just a cheap rhetorical technique employed to deflect attention away from accusations of hypocrisy. It's the last refuge of the hypocrite especially when it comes to discussing politics. Unfortunately it seems to be a rather effective rhetorical device in that it tends to terminate discussions while allowing the wielder to disappear in a puff of smoke.

Re: Hetzner is terminating contracts with all users who had a Russian postal address

#93

Post by verdverm »

byyll wrote: post #87
verdverm wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One feature is not invading sovereign nations. However, each faction has shown creativity in how they define and apply this idea.

So the US isn't civilized, glad we settled that.

that is a large logic leap to make from my statement

Being civilized is in the eyes of the beholder, with each faction believing they are civilized and justified. Are you painting an entire culture and people as uncivilized?

Re: Hetzner is terminating contracts with all users who had a Russian postal address

#94

Post by rufus_foreman »

verdverm wrote: post #74
gizmo wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pointing out clear hypocrisy. That's not whataboutism.

It can be both at the same time, which I would agree it is. Whataboutism seeks to inject other topics instead of focusing on the one at hand

If pointing out hypocrisy is whataboutism, then I see no problem with whataboutism. Pointing out hypocrisy is not a logical fallacy, it is something that should be done more frequently.

If you believe that a country that invades another country should be the target of international sanctions, you believe that the US, along with many other countries, should be the target of international sanctions.

Do the people arguing that Russia should be the target of international sanctions act as if they believe the US should be the target of international sanctions? For the most part, they do not. It makes me question whether the real reason they want sanctions on Russia is because Russia invaded another country. Maybe the real rule is that when countries that you oppose invade another country, they should be the target of sanctions. That seems the be the rule that is actually practiced.

Re: Hetzner is terminating contracts with all users who had a Russian postal address

#95

Post by jacquesm »

dijit wrote: post #91
jacquesm wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a massive thread on HN at the time and the general consensus was that if you are a Russian entity relying on Western infrastructure that you should probably activate your contingency plans. The writing has been on the wall for all that time and with authorities coming down harder and harder on companies that are still doing business with Russia it is in a way surprising it took Hetzner this long to act.

ok, so you're saying there was an implied warning, not that there actually was one. Which is what I suspected. A formal warning is the only one that matters in terms of actual notice.

No, there actually was a warning: plenty of countries have (in the meantime) put official sanctions in place but it has taken a while (and longer than expected) for that to ramp up to the point where actual legal action was taken against those busting the sanctions. More and more companies are figuring out that what they are doing may very well be interpreted as sanction busting and obviously the first to be addressed are the ones that are in the weapons and dual use trades. Where hosting falls on that scale I couldn't tell you but I do know that I'm risk averse enough not to want to figure out whether I know more than the authorities on where that line lies.

Likely some of the more recent arrests in Germany have woken up Hetzner to the possibility that what they are doing may well be interpreted as illegal even if it wasn't spelled out to them in a way that they heard it, or maybe they figured the war would be over before it was their turn. Who is to know? The fact that they turn around now is possibly reflective of direct pressure on them or it may be their own reasoning, someone downthread suggests that Hetzner may well have lost its usefulness in terms of being an intercept. The possibilities are endless and it is all just speculation, I'd take the letter at face value and leave it at that.

Re: Hetzner is terminating contracts with all users who had a Russian postal address

#96

Post by verdverm »

rufus_foreman wrote: post #94
verdverm wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can be both at the same time, which I would agree it is. Whataboutism seeks to inject other topics instead of focusing on the one at hand

If pointing out hypocrisy is whataboutism, then I see no problem with whataboutism. Pointing out hypocrisy is not a logical fallacy, it is something that should be done more frequently. If you believe that a country that invades another country should be the target of international sanctions, you believe that the US, along with many other countries, should be the target of international sanctions. Do the people argui…

This pretty much describes great power conflict and competition between democracies and authoritarian states. There are fundamental differences that make treating them the same unreasonable to most in the west.

Re: Hetzner is terminating contracts with all users who had a Russian postal address

#97

Post by gizmo »

verdverm wrote: post #89
gizmo wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not inviting people to change the topic with my post. Hetzners actions are clearly because of sanctions against Russia. They say so in their email. My response asks whether "the geopolitical situation" is a good justification, given that there are many comparable geopolitical situations where Europe would never respond with sanctions like these.

There are contradictions in your comments, one example > Maybe Hetzner is acting out of principle, maybe they choose to do this because of optics. > Hetzners actions are clearly because of sanctions against Russia. They say so in their email. > My response asks whether "the geopolitical situation" is a good justification It's very hard to follow your logic and what you think is the reason Hetzner is cancelling some c…

We don't know what motivates the Hetzner executives. We only know what their actions are. We don't know whether they agree with the sanctions against Russia. But clearly their actions are because of the sanctions. Hetzner is not going to refuse to do business with an entire country entirely out of their own accord.

As for whataboutism, downvotes here can also represent simple disagreement. The first comment suggested that Europe "really tried", i.e. that Europe is acting with noble and good intentions. I think that's ahistorical, but I can see how people who believe that take offense to my post.

Re: Hetzner is terminating contracts with all users who had a Russian postal address

#98

Post by byyll »

verdverm wrote: post #93
byyll wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the US isn't civilized, glad we settled that.

that is a large logic leap to make from my statement Being civilized is in the eyes of the beholder, with each faction believing they are civilized and justified. Are you painting an entire culture and people as uncivilized?

I am using your definition, that's all.

Re: Hetzner is terminating contracts with all users who had a Russian postal address

#99

Post by buserror »

justinclift wrote: post #59
buserror wrote: post #7

I hope this is not going to be a massive hit for them financially -- I like Hetzner. On the flip side they might have some cheap 'server auction' on the block soon, I've been pondering a cross/upgrade for a little while already :-)

In the times I've checked, their "server auction" things don't really seem any obviously better than their standard options. What sort of stuff do you look for that seems good?

Last time I checked, their new server are way more than the typical 35 euros mark, which is what I pay at the minute for ~3TB RAID1 quad core with 16GB ram... The current gen of server auction seems already to be quite a nice upgrade to my hardware, if I'm willing to ditch hardware raid...

Re: Hetzner is terminating contracts with all users who had a Russian postal address

#100

Post by Moldoteck »

jacquesm wrote: post #16
Moldoteck wrote: post #3

so even if postal address is changed, it will still mean termination, why?

Because they're not idiots? Hetzner doesn't want to end up in the cross hairs of authorities coming down on companies doing business with sanctioned entities. This is their legal department speaking, not the technicians and a change in postal address is so transparent that it will not work.

They're some ppl that moved to germany/baltics and are legal residents there. Does this mean their account will be terminated? That's what I meant
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