Time zones are geopolitical artifacts just like borders, laws, currencies, etc. They can't really be "permanent"...
Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union
91–100 of 264 posts
Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'd rather it be how it is in the spring rather than winter. When you get home there's at least a bit more time in the day to enjoy the sun.
For large parts of the US it’s probably dark by 4:30 so no, not really. I’m not in the US by the way.
[deleted]
Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'd rather it be how it is in the spring rather than winter. When you get home there's at least a bit more time in the day to enjoy the sun.
For large parts of the US it’s probably dark by 4:30 so no, not really. I’m not in the US by the way.
Here's a map of the earliest sunset time: https://weather.com/science/weather-explainers/news/2018-12-... . There are parts of the US which have sunsets before 4:30, including some major population centers, but I don't know if I'd call them "large parts".
Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union
#94We (Europe) shouldn't fragment time zones that much. We (NL) should stay on permanent summer time. Reasons - criminality is lower when there's longer light - earlier darkness leads to more accidents. It's better to have longer darkness after the masses are RESTED (in the morning), opposed to when they're TIRED (in the evening) - longer day-time for office workers, is more productive - shorter time of year that has lo…
> We (NL) should stay on permanent summer time. > Reasons > ... Why not just have time as close to solar as possible and move working hours as needed? I have always found arguments for permanent summer time very confusing. Just move working hours as needed, why do you need to deviate the entire clock from the solar time for that?
It's basically a coordination problem. Workplaces, schools, stores...
Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union
#95After placing all of Europe on permanent winter time, going by the image provided, this proposal seeks to split Ireland's time zone from the UK's and place it a further hour earlier, thereby ensuring that the sun will begin setting at 2:30PM, and it will be pitch black out at 3:30PM in the winter, all in the name of achieving "permanent time zones as close as possible to solar time (natural time) in Europe." Well don…
>"permanent time zones as close as possible to solar time (natural time) in Europe."
It doesn't even do that for most people in Ireland, according to its own map! As it appears to be based on land mass without regard to population density, the majority of the population would most naturally be in the Western European Time Zone, but they'd be pushed into the Azores Time Zone. A government in Dublin is not going to agree to a time zone change that wouldn't make sense for Dublin, and that's even ignoring the extreme political problems and potential violence and unrest involved with Ireland and Northern Ireland being in different time zones.
For that matter, Greece is understandably not going to agree to any change in time zones that results in a map where its islands that Turkey disputes are changed to be the same colour as Turkey, rather than Greece. Neither is Cyprus. It would be a bit like asking either the government of Taiwan to start using simplified characters, or the PRC to start using traditional characters, and simply saying that it would make language support on computers simpler.
I would support a reasonable proposal to end DST and have more natural time zones. But it has to at least consider factors other than just land masses and solar time, or it will never be a viable proposal. Their "full document" and "justification" doesn't include any discussion of the political ramifications or of population densities. They don't appear to give any justification of their specific country-level recommendations at all.
Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well we can't, and that's having tried! The replies do a great job of illustrating why really: there's no consensus. Some want permanent standard time. Some want permanent DST. Some are fine the way it is. In a big country spanning a lot of latitude as well as longitude and tens of millions on wildly different work and sleep schedules, messy compromise making no one entirely happy is what success looks like. Basicall…
I don't really care any longer having a pretty flexible schedule and no commute. But living in relatively northern New England, the timezone tweaks for summer and winter really were pretty welcome. I suspect that most of those ranting about timezone changes wouldn't actually want sunrise at 4am or sunset at 3pm.
I also live in northern New England and feel the same at this point. It may not be ideal, but nothing else would be either. And honestly technology has made the pain points pretty much vanish for me anyway: now every single time keeping device automatically switches over, and my smart lights that I made a program for a simulated sunrise and time-of-day based color temperature changes also switch which means my circadian rhythm adapts right away. I can absolutely empathize with those who feel differently but I think where we've ended up is pretty decent given the ginormously different circumstances and wishes. Until something can win a better consensus.
Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, that's completely absurd. Ireland is more likely to leave the EU than accept timezone partition.
Nonsense. Ireland will never leave the EU. They more likely to accept a time zone difference than leave the EU. They wanted membership desperately in the early 60s but had to wait a decade partly because de Galle hated the Brits. They couldn’t join quick enough.
Are you aware of the accession path Ireland took and why it was linked to UK accession?
Ireland has the highest level of pro-EU sentiment in the bloc and it is still more likely that we will leave than accept a timezone partition with the North. It's not in question. Failure to understand this is a complete failure to understand the country.
Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union
#98From the Who We Are page of the site > The Time Use Initiative (TUI) is the main non-profit organisation promoting the right to time all over the world. Its main objective is to encourage public discussion on how we collectively organise our time, seen as a way to improve citizen’s well-being through innovative time policies. So this is not a proposal from an EU department, but it's a proposal to the EU. For sure the…
It is, however, endorsed by some EU department and a bunch of other entities (see bottom)
Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union
#99We (Europe) shouldn't fragment time zones that much. We (NL) should stay on permanent summer time. Reasons - criminality is lower when there's longer light - earlier darkness leads to more accidents. It's better to have longer darkness after the masses are RESTED (in the morning), opposed to when they're TIRED (in the evening) - longer day-time for office workers, is more productive - shorter time of year that has lo…
> We (NL) should stay on permanent summer time. > Reasons > ... Why not just have time as close to solar as possible and move working hours as needed? I have always found arguments for permanent summer time very confusing. Just move working hours as needed, why do you need to deviate the entire clock from the solar time for that?
Because we no longer live in a pre-industrial society where people start work with the sunrise and go to bed at sunset, because the only available artificial light is candles. For the vast majority of people, noon is not the middle of the day.
Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union
#100Ha why “Azores time zone” including Ireland and Iceland when the Azores are miles away. “Atlantic time zone” seems to make more sense.
In the Americas, "Atlantic time zone" refers to the time zone 1 hour before Eastern. Presumably Azores time is meant to avoid confusion with existing Atlantic time.
Also, Azores Time Zone is the existing name of the time zone.