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Tax, healthcare, immigration: why Dutch people voted for Geert Wilders

theguardian.com

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Re: Tax, healthcare, immigration: why Dutch people voted for Geert Wilders

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would hope people would look at Brexit as a model of how well that line of thought works. Especially as we're seeing how ugly the downstream effects are years afterwards.

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> It baffles me that there was even a need for 'a deal'. I mean: WTF. Can't we just be free?!

Sure, but that freedom means not doing any trade with your neighbours, not letting people from your country visit the EU (and vice versa), not importing any energy, etc.

Re: Tax, healthcare, immigration: why Dutch people voted for Geert Wilders

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would hope people would look at Brexit as a model of how well that line of thought works. Especially as we're seeing how ugly the downstream effects are years afterwards.

[flagged]

>> the EU wasn't really cooperating in making a deal with the UK. Could you clarify this? What kind of deal should the UK have gotten? Should the UK get a better deal than other countries which are not in the union?

Re: Tax, healthcare, immigration: why Dutch people voted for Geert Wilders

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate the sentiment but the idea that people support policy that’s good for them isn’t much better either. For an obvious example check how many people support the Affordable Care Act vs Obamacare.

> For an obvious example check how many people support the Affordable Care Act vs Obamacare. 100%, since they are the same thing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affordable_Care_Act Also, the ACA has undoubtedly resulted in more people getting more healthcare than in pre-ACA. The provisions to require covering people with pre existing health conditions and eliminating out of pocket maximums are a massive improvement ov…

I think the "joke" was that opinion polls will show very different results if you call it "The Affordable Care Act" vs. if you call it "Obamacare" -- a fact which casts doubt on the decision-making abilities of voters.

Re: Tax, healthcare, immigration: why Dutch people voted for Geert Wilders

#94

Weird to read a post here from a foreign newspaper trying to describe what happened in my own country. But largely it's true, many people are unhappy with the amount of migration, the housing crisis, the rising cost of living and also what they feel is too much environmentalism. They feel that the parties that were in the government during the last 10 years did not take their concerns seriously or even made them wors…

Quote: Again this regulation comes from the EU so NL can't just change it This is -I think- (one of) the main reasons people voted PVV. We (the Dutch people) can't even make their own decisions! And when things fall apart (and they are: housing, inflation, too much environmentalism, declining healthcare, etc) this is exactly what we need: make decisions to fix this. But we 'can't' because of EU. This is extremely ang…

The main reason is that people don't feel like being responsible for their own solutions, just expect it from a savior - failing EU then a local one. They keep blaming whoever else while forgetting THEY are part of the EU and THEY vote for every single point on the EU action list and legislation, yes including environmentalism. And continuing to not feel responsible, they vote for the guy who takes them out of that EU responsibilities, while promising he will deliver locally on exactly the same points he failed previously to deliver on the EU level. And the voters believed him, of course, ignoring there are green and left-wing parties on local level just as well. Well, this eternal naivety some iron hand will save us, same since the dawn of history...

Re: Tax, healthcare, immigration: why Dutch people voted for Geert Wilders

#95

Weird to read a post here from a foreign newspaper trying to describe what happened in my own country. But largely it's true, many people are unhappy with the amount of migration, the housing crisis, the rising cost of living and also what they feel is too much environmentalism. They feel that the parties that were in the government during the last 10 years did not take their concerns seriously or even made them wors…

I'm a recent immigrant to NL but one kind of surprising thing is how low density a lot of the cities are. Look around Hilversum, Houten, etc. (random examples I'm familiar with) and it's mostly rowhouses. It seems like there should be an opportunity to replace a lot of these with something like the 4-5 story buildings you see in Paris, for instance. Also, quite a few cars (and big SUV's, and even quite a few full-siz…

In Hilversum you will see a lot more big SUV's than in a typical Dutch city, the area ('Gooi') is considered quite posh in the Netherlands.

Yes there definitely are possibilities to make more out the existing urban area's. But wherever someone has an idea for building more houses, there always are others that are against it. In your case, building 4-5 story buildings would be seen by some as disturbing the skyline of the city. They'd rather keep their current small city atmosphere.

Re: Tax, healthcare, immigration: why Dutch people voted for Geert Wilders

#96

Weird to read a post here from a foreign newspaper trying to describe what happened in my own country. But largely it's true, many people are unhappy with the amount of migration, the housing crisis, the rising cost of living and also what they feel is too much environmentalism. They feel that the parties that were in the government during the last 10 years did not take their concerns seriously or even made them wors…

I love the framing 'environmentalism'. Nature is dying and we're stuck on blaming the messenger. I wheep for our children.

Re: Tax, healthcare, immigration: why Dutch people voted for Geert Wilders

#97

Weird to read a post here from a foreign newspaper trying to describe what happened in my own country. But largely it's true, many people are unhappy with the amount of migration, the housing crisis, the rising cost of living and also what they feel is too much environmentalism. They feel that the parties that were in the government during the last 10 years did not take their concerns seriously or even made them wors…

I'm a recent immigrant to NL but one kind of surprising thing is how low density a lot of the cities are. Look around Hilversum, Houten, etc. (random examples I'm familiar with) and it's mostly rowhouses. It seems like there should be an opportunity to replace a lot of these with something like the 4-5 story buildings you see in Paris, for instance. Also, quite a few cars (and big SUV's, and even quite a few full-siz…

> I'm originally American and if there were large groups of people moving here from Texas, not learning Dutch, and bringing Texan values I'd be pretty worried.

Sure just replace the rowhouses with skyscrapers and burn the cars.. looking the results of the last elections sounds like your Californian and not Texan values are what worries the Dutch people.. unbelievable

Re: Tax, healthcare, immigration: why Dutch people voted for Geert Wilders

#98

Weird to read a post here from a foreign newspaper trying to describe what happened in my own country. But largely it's true, many people are unhappy with the amount of migration, the housing crisis, the rising cost of living and also what they feel is too much environmentalism. They feel that the parties that were in the government during the last 10 years did not take their concerns seriously or even made them wors…

Canada is not at all a crowded country, yet it has housing crisis. At least Netherlands had the foresight to create dense, urban spaces with cycling infrastructure and half decent public transit. All they need to do now is replicate this. The thing about environmental concerns is that the nos should be balanced with human quality of life, and in that lens the Dutch way really works better than many other developed co…

Canada and Australia are both facing a housing crisis, and that's mostly due to the fact that the country is huge, but the actually livable parts of the country are fairly small. Then add in the standard Anglo Neoliberalism and surprise surprise big money controls what little habitable space is available.

I've lived in both and worked outside in -40C and +40C, and both are rough. I'd rather be in Virginia and 4 actual seasons. Or San Diego, where there is just one.

Re: Tax, healthcare, immigration: why Dutch people voted for Geert Wilders

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As is with Canada, the problem is always investors. Canada's housing crisis stemmed from a lot of outside money buying up property simply to sit on it and leave it empty/unused, and in the Netherlands you see similar trends along with investors buying up property the moment it appears. Additionally, any bans on things like Airbnb gets overruled by the court system. These are all things that lower taxes and kicking ou…

Real estate investors expect to earn income from the properties they buy, and thus try to rent them out, especially when interest rates are above zero as they are now. Often the financial plan assumes that rental income will be used to pay the mortgage, property taxes, and other costs.

I assume the OP is referring to (largely Chinese) real estate buyers, where the goal isn't so much earning a return, but instead finding a safe place to stash money. I know this was reported as a problem in Vancouver, BC, but I'm unconvinced it's a true problem outside of hyper-local areas. I've also seen the same argument about luxury flats in London (mostly Middle Eastern buyers here).

And of course, the reporting always calls out the non-native buyers, largely ignoring that wealthy Americans, Canadians, and Brits also own multiple homes spanning many nations, and can't inhabit them all at the same time.

Re: Tax, healthcare, immigration: why Dutch people voted for Geert Wilders

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

>> the EU wasn't really cooperating in making a deal with the UK. Could you clarify this? What kind of deal should the UK have gotten? Should the UK get a better deal than other countries which are not in the union?

Give the UK (the people in the UK) the freedom to do business with whomever they want. Without 'bullying' border rules. But no, EU said: You left us and that makes us angry.

My whole point is: there should never have bin a EU. What was wrong with the agreement between countries?

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