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X Has Become a 'Global Sewer,' Mayor of Paris Says

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Re: X Has Become a 'Global Sewer,' Mayor of Paris Says

#91
post #12

X is the best social media platform out there at this point. What are the alternatives? Meta's Facebook, Instagram? TikTok? It's just bollocks. X is where a lot of interesting people post, and where freedom of speech is the most upheld. Community notes is also a super interesting aspect. It's not X's fault someone follows nazis or whatever and don't know where the mute / block buttons are.

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Re: X Has Become a 'Global Sewer,' Mayor of Paris Says

#92
I'm a supporter of free speech, and like most free speech supporters I tend to believe the suppression of speech leads to a paradoxical effect: the metastasis of the suppressed ideas.

Of course there is a but coming! When twitter launched, I immediately felt like Twitter itself was a distillation of a fascistic impulse: the idea that a curt and pithy phrase, stripped of nuance, is not only a superior way to communicate, but the only way to communicate. (I'm using "fascistic" here not to incite, but for lack of a better term: I think everyone has an impulse towards the safety of political simplicity, and that modern democracy is founded on complexity, i.e. lots of opinions, lots of checks and balances, lots of persuasive argument required to achieve things). I feel that the very structure of throttled meaning is what made Twitter in particular such a platform for mass outrage and negativity.

Fast foward a decade, and the twitter model of simplicity is now the normal mode of discourse on social media. If something is not a few seconds long, its reach is quite limited. This means that simple things, like propaganda, are easier to articulate, and complex things that acknowledge the subtlety of actual life get buried.

Taken out of political context, a good example is videos of altercations between people (fights, arguments, etc) that become viral. As a viewer, I almost immediately feel outrage and righteous anger against the perceived victim of the altercation. But sometimes some context comes to light: the perceived victim is actually the aggressor, or the situation is much more complicated than it seemed. Putting this back in the political context, I see quick videos getting passed around that do a similar thing: take an event quite out of context in order to manufacture outrage against a particular group. Of course there is a word for this: propaganda.

I'm not a technological doomer: I'm quite intrigued as to what is happening, and my impulse is not to shackle it. But what I'm witnessing is that propaganda (or otherwise, events taken out of context) spread like lightning on social media, and I am sympathetic to attempts by platforms to somehow provide context or moderation to that spread. The mob mentality is real. I share the Mayor's concern about Twitter, because even though it was a sewer from the start, in my estimation, by its platformization of epistemological constraint, the fact that it is walking back attempts to staunch the spread of its own demons is concerning.

I do think a healthy public debate in a functioning, free speech democracy, is essential to its lifeblood. But for that debate to function, it must be done in good faith, and with some shared understanding of truth and context. While I see that happening in some places on social media, it's generally on well moderated forums in which people accept that bad faith arguers will be banned.

Like I said I don't have a clear sense of the solution to all this. State sponsored propaganda was all too effective before social media, and I can see social media undermining the monopoly of the state on the dissemination of that propaganda. But perhaps the pendulum will swing too far to the other side, where blatant bad faith, grassroots propaganda, and untruth successfully steer public opinion.

Re: X Has Become a 'Global Sewer,' Mayor of Paris Says

#94

The free speech thing is a red herring. Musk said 'freedom of speech' but not necessarily 'freedom of reach', which seems reasonable. This is not the problem. The problem is that the algorithms simply don't work. The sewer analogy is good - shit seems to float to the top, rather than the other way around. Places like HN and even reddit nailed this a long time ago, but any given X feed just looks like an append-only l…

HN posts/users are flagged/banned all the time - that's part of what makes it work relatively well. But the removed content is often exactly the kind that Musk et al argue should be allowed on Twitter.

Re: X Has Become a 'Global Sewer,' Mayor of Paris Says

#95
post #8

To be honest, Twitter/X has been a sewer for a good decade or so. The only thing that has changed is the kind of sewage that is allowed or encouraged to flow through it.

It is objectively much worse now. Which is natural when you effectively disband the safety teams and allow all previous banned accounts back onto the platform. Also where as Twitter at least tried to comply with codes of practice, X has simply just given up. Also a lot of it has to do with Musk being the face of the platform and endlessly trying to start culture wars.

I wonder if there are measurements to prove that it is "objectively much worse" - besides the decrease in traffic, decrease in users, and decrease in advertising that can be mainly attributed to a period of adjustment & political bias.

Re: X Has Become a 'Global Sewer,' Mayor of Paris Says

#96
post #56

The free speech thing is a red herring. Musk said 'freedom of speech' but not necessarily 'freedom of reach', which seems reasonable. This is not the problem. The problem is that the algorithms simply don't work. The sewer analogy is good - shit seems to float to the top, rather than the other way around. Places like HN and even reddit nailed this a long time ago, but any given X feed just looks like an append-only l…

HN is heavily moderated by very knowledgeable people and that's part of what makes it continue to work well. It's like if you go into a bar and there's a guy screaming a bunch of curse words and racist crap in the corner at everyone near him. Normal people are going to leave if no one kicks the guy out.

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Re: X Has Become a 'Global Sewer,' Mayor of Paris Says

#97

lol, lots of salty Twitter users in these comments It was a sewer long before Musk took over, that's why the previous owners were so happy to dump it on him, cash out and let him polish that turd

The reason the previous owners were eager to dump Twitter was because Elon offered far more than it was worth, despite it being a cash flow positive business.

He backed out because he was foolish enough to think that the legally binding offer was not in fact binding.

Re: X Has Become a 'Global Sewer,' Mayor of Paris Says

#98
post #12

X is the best social media platform out there at this point. What are the alternatives? Meta's Facebook, Instagram? TikTok? It's just bollocks. X is where a lot of interesting people post, and where freedom of speech is the most upheld. Community notes is also a super interesting aspect. It's not X's fault someone follows nazis or whatever and don't know where the mute / block buttons are.

>What are the alternatives? Gouging your eyes out with a screwdriver? Sticking your dick into a blender? Both are probably less harmful long term than using X.

I disagree. I have a pretty cool set of accounts I follow on X that give me a lot more value than gouging my eyes out with a screwdriver and / or sticking my dick into a blender.

Re: X Has Become a 'Global Sewer,' Mayor of Paris Says

#99
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

What's your source for these claims? Can you link to it, please?

I’m too lazy to search for Elon’s original tweets about this.

But it was reported in media quite recently about him going “thermonuclear”.

Here’s one article about it:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tylerroush/2023/11/18/elon-musk...

Re: X Has Become a 'Global Sewer,' Mayor of Paris Says

#100
post #12

X is the best social media platform out there at this point. What are the alternatives? Meta's Facebook, Instagram? TikTok? It's just bollocks. X is where a lot of interesting people post, and where freedom of speech is the most upheld. Community notes is also a super interesting aspect. It's not X's fault someone follows nazis or whatever and don't know where the mute / block buttons are.

I was skeptical about much of the "Big Brother" censorship claims about Facebook until Facebook started censoring certain URLs in my facebook private messages with friends when we were talking about the Ukraine war That just strikes me as downright weird.

My parents, and their generation, are getting so much shit shoved down their throats with the Facebook algorithms that I can't in good conscience consider it a better place than X.
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