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The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

phys.org

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Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#91

Post by watwut »

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #69
watwut wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that we actually give kids massive amount of attention compared to historical standards ... calling current situation "degenerate" is absurd. Also considering that by many statistics, children do better then they used to just a few decades ago.

> Given that we actually give kids massive amount of attention compared to historical standards ... calling current situation "degenerate" is absurd. This seems to assume that ~all attention is positive and that attention is still beneficial after the Xth hour. After a time the adult role becomes less parent and more like prison guard duty. It also seems to assume adult-time is enough for kids and that peer-only time…

We also spank them significantly less and yell at them significantly less (speaking of negative attention).

Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#93

Post by toomuchtodo »

throwaway22032 wrote: post #84
toomuchtodo wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of folks don’t want kids or to be involved with them too, another important consideration.

Not wanting to be a parent is one thing, but people who don't want to be involved with kids need to work on themselves, that's a deeply antisocial trait - your own existence depended on everyone around you being involved with you to some degree.

That is an opinion, not a fact. Freedom of association and to be happy can include not interacting with children you choose not to, and optimizing for happiness is important (versus a social contract requiring otherwise). No one will optimize for your own happiness besides you.

I have kids, but fully respect people who don’t care for or want to avoid time and interaction with kids. I respect their boundaries, that is what I advocate for here.

I’ve had over a decade of therapy, so I’m fairly confident in my position on the topic.

Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#95

Post by watwut »

pfisherman wrote: post #79
conception wrote: post #22

The book Hunt, Gather, Parent touches on this a bit. It takes 3-4 humans, not necessarily adults but cousins and whatnot, to take care of a child. Two? 6-8. Since western societies broke up tight knit communities, the support system for this in the west has been lacking and jerry rigged with tired parents and nannies etc ever since. The reason for the breakup is fun - https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2019/11/ro…

The linked article is pretty ridiculous. I am pretty sure it leaves out a lot of nuance from the underlying work - as these types of press releases normally do - but there is a bunch of stuff in there that just does not make sense. First the taboo against consanguineous marriages was most likely because of genetic diseases. Biology may not have been very advanced, but people were smart enough to pick up on patterns.…

> Is “the hero’s journey” not a story about rugged individualism that has been told over and over in different forms across cultures since the beginning of history?

I don't think so. The heros journey does not need to be about "rugged individualism" at all. Not is about it all across cultures and history.

We like stories about rugged individualism. We prefer them. And oftentimes, we change original stories fro. other culture to fit the patterns we like or ignore those that don't fit them.

And also, across cultures and history, the hero journey is far from the only or even primary kind of story.

Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#96

Post by ajb »

bequanna wrote: post #64
ajb wrote: post #62

This is once of the things that remote work/homeworking may enable, if companies don't succeed in taking it away. If people can rely on getting remote work, they can arrange their living situation to improve the rest of their life, instead of for work: - young people living in large halls, to improve their dating prospects - groups of friends living close together across job moves, enabling longer term friendships -…

Is this a thing? Other than one-off communes, I think this is still pretty rare and I’m not aware of it growing due to work from home.

Given that it requires changing property market choices, its only going to happen on a big scale if working from home beds in and people feel they can rely on it longer term.

Having said that, I've seen some adverts for 'student hall ' like living for young professionals. That works because the investor can switch to the actual student market.

Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#97

Post by [deleted] »

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #71
elmomle wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some definitions of attention, yes, but not necessarily historically massive amounts of physical contact and (non -neurotic) care. Think of the images from the world over of indigenous women going about their days largely with their young children strapped to them.

> Think of the images from the world over of indigenous women going about their days largely with their young children strapped to them. Until they can walk at which point they are increasingly gone to do the vital growing that happens away from adults.

[deleted]

Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#98

Post by cplusplusfellow »

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #71
elmomle wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some definitions of attention, yes, but not necessarily historically massive amounts of physical contact and (non -neurotic) care. Think of the images from the world over of indigenous women going about their days largely with their young children strapped to them.

> Think of the images from the world over of indigenous women going about their days largely with their young children strapped to them. Until they can walk at which point they are increasingly gone to do the vital growing that happens away from adults.

This is not advocacy for replicating indigenous societies parental habits, but perhaps a key is hyper-focused for 2-3 years and then a steeper dropoff on the hand-holding (literally and figuratively).

Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#99

Post by watwut »

seec wrote: post #90

I hate those types of "research" that base all their "findings" on observation of what is undesirable primitive living. What's more they don't even meaningfully quantify what can be qualified as neglect or abuse. My opinion as well as my own experience is that those children are far more likely to be subjected to much higher levels of abuse and neglect in this type of situation. As someone who has been neglected by h…

> We had a system; it was working pretty well. In fact, it successfully kickstarted the industrial revolution

You mean like when both parents worked 12 hours a day 6 days a week and 3-4 years old roamed streets in little gangs? Older siblings and other relatives worked those 12 plus hours a day too.

That was industrial revolution and actual situation. In Germany, it led to kindergartens - you know so that 4 years olds have a place to go to.

Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#100

Post by Aurornis »

financltravsty wrote: post #86
ajb wrote: post #62

This is once of the things that remote work/homeworking may enable, if companies don't succeed in taking it away. If people can rely on getting remote work, they can arrange their living situation to improve the rest of their life, instead of for work: - young people living in large halls, to improve their dating prospects - groups of friends living close together across job moves, enabling longer term friendships -…

I’m already doing this with a set of friends in a big city with decent public transportation (relative to the world). We all share a two story two flat. It’s quite fun, and my mental health is great. The big “but” is that it’s unlikely to last because people value different things. Most of us are doing this arrangement because it’s ridiculously inexpensive compared to other forms of housing. One has already moved out…

I don’t think remote work is the bottleneck to people living like this. It’s fun when you’re young but most people outgrow the situation relatively quickly as they age (barring budget-driven forced decisions).

I also see a growing detachment from reality in some of the remote work maximalists who forget that not everyone has a job sitting at a computer all day. A significant number of younger people have jobs involved in-person work where remote isn’t even possible. This seems to be forgotten about in some of the writings about how remote work might change society, especially on HN where many commenters have only known jobs sitting in isolation at a computer.

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