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The story of titanium

construction-physics.com

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Re: The story of titanium

#91

Post by kragen »

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #85
kragen wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The same also applies to aluminum, magnesium, nickel, etc. the oxides of aluminum, magnesium, and nickel were not in use as paint pigments > What distinguishes iron and copper from aluminum and titanium is the energy required to split the oxide into metal. (...) Titanium is not more reactive than aluminum the particularly relevant issue here, as i understand it, is that titanium has a stable carbide, which prevents…

> the oxides of aluminum, magnesium, and nickel were not in use as paint pigments Aluminum oxides were used as a pigment, predominantly in blue (cobalt aluminum oxide) but also in white. In any case, the dominant white dyes of the Early Modern period -- and prior periods -- were lead based. The presence of TiO2-based pigments is actually one good way to identify a modern forgery. > the particularly relevant issue her…

people don't make titanium via calciothermic or magnesiothermic reduction of the ore, i don't know why

the magnesiothermic reduction is the actual reduction step of the kroll process, though

Re: The story of titanium

#92

Post by muz754 »

danielodievich wrote: post #3

As a kid in my father's workshop we had several 4mm thick titanium plates, scavenged from some industrial stuff in USSR research facility nearby. I had a lot of fun getting my visiting friends tey to dent it with hammers. No matter how hard you struck it just didn't care. Only the oxidation patina would show some trace of impact. It was absolute magic to me. And so incredibly light!

Some hammers might not be that hard - you don’t want it to blow up in your face if you’re hitting a hardened steel tool.

Re: The story of titanium

#93

Post by amluto »

OfSanguineFire wrote: post #68
amluto wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That company sells titanium pots, too. And they say “ Titanium leaves no metallic smell or taste.” I don’t believe it. Titanium is, mechanically, a great material for a lightweight pot, but in my limited testing, I don’t think it’s inert enough. Green tea in a titanium pot is especially nasty.

In the backpacking and bicycle-travel community, titanium pots are widely regarded as good only for boiling water in, since they don't distribute heat as well as aluminium for more complex cooking.

I’m well aware, but I don’t really believe this :). As far as I can tell, no very thin pot or pan distributes heat well [0], and no very thin pan cleans up well from cooked-on food when the cleaning supplies at hand while backpacking.

[0] Concretely, this means that, when cooking solid food, the parts of the pan where the food isn’t sinking heat adequately get too hot.

Re: The story of titanium

#94

Post by LargoLasskhyfv »

pasabagi wrote: post #75
hdivider wrote: post #51

Huge fan of Titanium. If only we could find a cheap way to get the metal out of titanium dioxide. Like a Haber process-level breakthrough. Then we could start replacing steel with titanium in many applications. Think entire freight trains, cargo ships, containers, cars, trucks, tractors -- all that heavy steel replaced by titanium alloys. Enormous quantities of fuel and energy saved by lower density and higher streng…

I think it could be one of those 'grass-is-greener' scenarios. Steel is really nice to work with. It's strong and elastic and you can do all sorts of things to alter its properties, like even in a home shop. Titanium always looks really hard to work with, just from the few times I've seen youtube types get some into their lathe chucks. Would the added (in some ways just different) performance make up the difference?…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanium_alloys

Looks like alloys are much more mallable, while losing almost none of the qualities of pure titanium.

Also: Go nukkular, high-temperature to be specific.

Re: The story of titanium

#95

Post by scrlk »

kylehotchkiss wrote: post #30
scrlk wrote: post #11

I can't help but recall Steve Jobs introducing the PowerBook G4 Titanium: > "Titanium! It's made out of titanium! Like the spy planes! This is an incredible material, it's stronger than steel yet lighter than aluminium." https://youtu.be/bNHkrnU77m0?t=92

I could see a day when titanium laptops return. Apple has invested in the some of the best mass machining in the world. I wonder what it’d look like sandblasted like their laptops and with their new coatings.

I miss the short "how it's made" videos that used to be in every single Apple production introduction (e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQnr-kfuVdQ).

There was a blog called "Atomic Delights" that would explain the manufacturing processes featured in the videos. Found it super interesting, especially considering the challenge of shipping products at Apple level volumes.

A MBP with the natural titanium finish as seen in the iPhone 15 Pro would be fantastic.

Re: The story of titanium

#96

Post by AngryData »

Titanium is a wonderful material but I think many people are way more idealistic about how great it is than it is in reality. In nearly every category other than weight constraints steel still wins out and is so much easier to work with.

Re: The story of titanium

#97

Post by Gare »

petertodd wrote: post #50
MeImCounting wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For most non-architectural design goals striking the right balance of toughness strength and hardness is generally what you want correct? I would imagine for building a bridge you care much more about elasticity and creep strength.

Also fatigue resistance. Bicycle design is a good example of where this matters: steel has a significant fatigue limit, and can endure cyclic stresses below that limit indefinitely. Aluminum has no fatigue limit, so any flexing is inevitably eating away at fatigue life. Thus aluminum bike frames have to be made much stronger and stiffer than otherwise necessary, to avoid bikes breaking unexpectedly due to fatigue. An…

And fork is made out of steel (or carbon) even on aluminium bikes

Re: The story of titanium

#98

Post by OfSanguineFire »

amluto wrote: post #93
OfSanguineFire wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the backpacking and bicycle-travel community, titanium pots are widely regarded as good only for boiling water in, since they don't distribute heat as well as aluminium for more complex cooking.

I’m well aware, but I don’t really believe this :). As far as I can tell, no very thin pot or pan distributes heat well [0], and no very thin pan cleans up well from cooked-on food when the cleaning supplies at hand while backpacking. [0] Concretely, this means that, when cooking solid food, the parts of the pan where the food isn’t sinking heat adequately get too hot.

The non-stick aluminium pans from MSR, and perhaps other brands, do clean up well from food after cooking. In my experience (hundreds of nights of cooking while cycling the world), it is enough to wipe them clean with a dedicated towel or wet-wipe in order to pack them, and then they can be washed completely the next time one reaches a convenient water source.

Re: The story of titanium

#99

Post by TexanFeller »

pasabagi wrote: post #82
kragen wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

maybe if the blast furnace hadn't been invented nearly a thousand years ago we wouldn't be so familiar with the techniques that work well on steel

That's true. On the other hand, people have been working with flint for longer than there have been people, and it remains fiendishly hard to make anything with it.

The ground is covered with flint arrowheads in various parts of TX that I’ve visited and/or inhabited. It’s really hard for me to imagine Indians crafting so many of them if it were that hard to work with.

Re: The story of titanium

#100

Post by dendrite9 »

Turing_Machine wrote: post #27
danielodievich wrote: post #3

As a kid in my father's workshop we had several 4mm thick titanium plates, scavenged from some industrial stuff in USSR research facility nearby. I had a lot of fun getting my visiting friends tey to dent it with hammers. No matter how hard you struck it just didn't care. Only the oxidation patina would show some trace of impact. It was absolute magic to me. And so incredibly light!

The article mentions that the Soviet Union had lots of titanium ore, and also that it was heavily used in the A-12/SR-71 family of aircraft. I remember reading elsewhere that the CIA set up a bunch of front operations across the world to buy titanium (or maybe titanium ore) from the USSR without them finding out what it was being used for. They didn't want the "Ship to:" part of the order form reading "Lockheed Skunk…

There's an interesting story about trading Boeing aircraft design knowledge for Soviet titanium design knowledge during the cold war. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/air-space-magazine/the-titani...
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