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The Lack of Compensation in Open Source Software Is Unsustainable

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Re: The Lack of Compensation in Open Source Software Is Unsustainable

#91
I have never understood this "I have an open source project and it eats all of my time, and I must scream".

Just stop. It's a hobby. As in life in general, don't have hobbies you don't enjoy. That's weird. Give your project to someone else - if this is you, skip to the bottom for my advice on how to do this.

I maintain a couple popular open source libraries, and a ton of unpopular libraries. At least two of the popular ones are way more popular than this guy says his is. For the most part they maintain themselves via pull requests. A good test suite, static analyzer and code standards validator go a long way towards making this possible with far less intervention. If you don't have those, that is where you should put your time.

When someone does open an issue, you look at it for 2 seconds, make a judgment call. Either label it wontfix, or ask them directly if they think they can handle fixing it.

If they can't fix it, you again make a judgment call about if it's worth your time or if you want to slap "Help Wanted" on it. And that's it, go eat dinner with your family. That's all you needed to do. Takes 30 seconds.

Once in a blue moon there's a hotfix that demands immediate attention, but it should be rare if you're building good software. If it's not rare, I'm sorry, I have bad news. Every once in a while a platform change requires some refactoring, but even that will often get PR'd by someone in the community who enjoys living on the edge.

At the end of the day, if you don't enjoy it, don't do it. If the library is truly popular just hand the reigns off to someone else. Forcefully if need be.

And don't just post a vague "maintainers wanted" somewhere. No one will see it. Scan your contributions for quality PRs and actually reach out to those people who are clearly invested in your code enough to understand how it works.

One of the projects I maintain, the original author literally just threw maintainer rights at me after having opened a handful of quality PRs myself. Didn't even ask. It worked :shrug: but YMMV.

Re: The Lack of Compensation in Open Source Software Is Unsustainable

#92
"Unsustainable" might not be the exact right word for it. I mean, it's software - if you can compile it, and run it, it's not like age will actively deteriorate it like a physical good. (Bit rot is definitely a concern, but far less of one than e.g. salt corrosion.)

Re: The Lack of Compensation in Open Source Software Is Unsustainable

#93
I'll tell you what so many tech bros tell artists upset about AI - you should be working for passion and love of the craft, instead of profit. Compensation only corrupts the dignity of the soul and results in terrible software, and programmers who only care about the paycheck.

Maybe you can find a second job, and focus on creating software as a hobby.

Re: The Lack of Compensation in Open Source Software Is Unsustainable

#94
post #71

The feeling of entitlement people have around open source is unsustainable. If someone releases code then that's it. You have it. Do what you want with it (within it's licence). Be thankful. Unless that guy specifically says he's going to maintain it for free you are entitled to exactly absolutely nothing more you ungrateful little git. If you add this code to your project, you should fix and share any problems you e…

[flagged]

I don't actually think that's a problem with capitalism (though it has many problems).

I've always seen this as the markets reflecting what we collectively actually prioritize. Sure we want to be safe and educated, but damn it if we don't really get enjoyment out of fancy new toys, vacations, and new cloths.

In this case capitalism doesn't seem to be holding down salaries of the careers you listed. Its noteworthy that most of those industries are unionized, but if the unions are worth anything at all they should be pushing salaries higher than the market would have otherwise paid.

Re: The Lack of Compensation in Open Source Software Is Unsustainable

#95

I think an open source compensation system could work similar to how artists are payed when their song is played on the radio. Radio stations in Sweden pay a fee to an organisation which distributes the money to artists in proportion to the amount of playtime. Imagine a new type of open source license that mandated paying a membership fee to a global foundation to use the code commercially. Non-commersial use would s…

> Imagine a new type of open source license that mandated paying a membership fee to a global foundation to use the code commercially.

That would by definition not be open source.

Re: The Lack of Compensation in Open Source Software Is Unsustainable

#96
This is essentially realizing that free markets don't pay proportionally to value created, but according to the marginal value created by paying more.

Compensation according to value created is fair. It's a goal we should strive for, but it requires either not going through free markets, or it requires empowering market participants to generate fairer outcomes.

This is pure fantasy, for many reasons: But if there was a union of OSS developers that would negotiate corporate open source users contribution to open source, and that would have the power to withhold license rights, compensation would probably be fairer overall.

Essentially a code collective rather than decentral anything goes open source ala GPL. I wonder if that would be attractive to some open source developers?

I think there sometimes is a strong aversion to get organized. "I just want to code!". But the idea that we can do without actively organizing society is naive, and if the outcomes don't suite us it's because those that actively organize (e.g. corporations) hold the power to shape the world in their interests.

Re: The Lack of Compensation in Open Source Software Is Unsustainable

#97

One of the problems I found with this is that actually taking donations is hard work. I live in a country completely unsuited to making money from a hobby project on the side. To take donations I'd need to register as self-employed, and pay monthly for social security as long as I'm registered, even if I make no revenue whatsoever in that month. That's an absolutely awful idea for a project just getting started. I'd…

> One of the problems I found with this is that actually taking donations is hard work. As many problems as there are with GitHub (social lock-in, Copilot laundering Open Source license violations), GitHub Sponsors is incredibly valuable and substantially reduces the friction for getting support for an Open Source project.

I don't think he is speaking about the ability to get donations. Rather about the tax consequences. It doesn't matter to governments how you got money, you have to declare it, even if it is GitHub Sponsors.

He did not say which country, but my guess would be Germany. You have to declare every penny here.

Re: The Lack of Compensation in Open Source Software Is Unsustainable

#98
post #71

The feeling of entitlement people have around open source is unsustainable. If someone releases code then that's it. You have it. Do what you want with it (within it's licence). Be thankful. Unless that guy specifically says he's going to maintain it for free you are entitled to exactly absolutely nothing more you ungrateful little git. If you add this code to your project, you should fix and share any problems you e…

[flagged]

So the end result is that you live in a society where the average quality of education and health care slowly plummets to zero?

That is not a sustainable solution for society.

Re: The Lack of Compensation in Open Source Software Is Unsustainable

#99
post #81
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear this and it makes sense that a minority of users sucks up a lot of time, but what isn't clear to me is why maintainers don't ignore these people. I've never maintained a popular open source project so maybe there's something about the situation I just don't understand. But it seems like: > Thank you for your feature request, we will add it to the backlog. The core team doesn't work on unfunded feature requests…

> but what isn't clear to me is why maintainers don't ignore these people. One reason is that you're being told that that's an awful thing to do by basically every resource on "proper open-source" you can find. Another is that these people are pretty good at starting shit storms trying to ruin your reputation if you don't comply with their unreasonable demands. It's also worth nothing that some requests/issues/questi…

> Another is that these people are pretty good at starting shit storms trying to ruin your reputation if you don't comply with their unreasonable demands.

If you go on social media and offer your well-thought-out opinions about some controversial subject, you are very likely to get large number of people sending you offensive messages, arguing with you objectionably, trying to start pile-ons, attempting to dox you, etc.

Is the correct response to announce that "your participation in political discussion for free has become unsustainable", and that you need to be paid by all the people who find your comments interesting?

Re: The Lack of Compensation in Open Source Software Is Unsustainable

#100
post #54

The feeling of entitlement people have around open source is unsustainable. If someone releases code then that's it. You have it. Do what you want with it (within it's licence). Be thankful. Unless that guy specifically says he's going to maintain it for free you are entitled to exactly absolutely nothing more you ungrateful little git. If you add this code to your project, you should fix and share any problems you e…

Those two things are connected. People will spend $10 on a coffee drink at Starbucks without blinking. Suggest that they spend $10 on a piece of software and they’ll throw a fit and claim you are taking away their rights.

Overwhelming majority of people don't buy 10$ coffee. They just don't do it.
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