Tesla built factory in Germany and hired thousands of workers while Volvo build new EX40 car completely in China. Just saying.
Tesla has factories in China too.
Swedish unions strike: Blocks mail and package deliveries for Tesla
91–100 of 160 posts
Re: Swedish unions strike: Blocks mail and package deliveries for Tesla
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
Except immigrants will come to the country and be willing to work for lower wages, they will be OK without taking the union benefits. Unions are a way to enrich current members by creating an exclusive cartel. How do you deal with the fact that there are people willing to work for less?
Icelander here. We have 90+% union participation in the country. A large portion of certain unions are immigrant workers. They have at numerous times gone on strike for better pay. So, at least here, your hypothesis does not seem to hold. This is probably due to the unions educating those immigrant workers on what their rights are.
Iceland also has very bizarre "union" structures that more resemble professional associations than unions in other countries. When I worked at a software company in Kópavogur, on my team of 7 there were at least 4 different unions represented.
Re: Swedish unions strike: Blocks mail and package deliveries for Tesla
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
Precisely this. This is a perfect example of how corporate ownership of the political process has usurped the actual function of government responsible to the poorest people, in favor of taking care of corporate interests A great example of how oligarchical power is literally built into our legal infrastructure
> corporate ownership of the political process has usurped the actual function of government responsible to the poorest people This is a curious diagnosis of a late 40s law. Consider why average Americans, including those in the lowest rung, vote against pro-union legislation (or don’t turn out for it), as well as the difference between Swedish and American unions.
Collectivism vs rugged individualism and exceptionalism with a serving of low empathy self interest institutionalized.
Re: Swedish unions strike: Blocks mail and package deliveries for Tesla
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
> corporate ownership of the political process has usurped the actual function of government responsible to the poorest people This is a curious diagnosis of a late 40s law. Consider why average Americans, including those in the lowest rung, vote against pro-union legislation (or don’t turn out for it), as well as the difference between Swedish and American unions.
Collectivism vs rugged individualism and exceptionalism with a serving of low empathy self interest institutionalized.
Sure. I’m just saying that we can’t throw the brainwashed/corporate corruption card at everything we don’t like.
Re: Swedish unions strike: Blocks mail and package deliveries for Tesla
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
Maybe because so many comments in this thread are pre-emptive “let me explain this in terms that Americans can understand”.
I shouldn't have to tell you this but the world doesn't revolve around the United States :)
You would have to tell HN. But then you would probably get some startup stump speech about how The Rest of The World should build technology better if they want a more worldly HN (probably not wrong).
Re: Swedish unions strike: Blocks mail and package deliveries for Tesla
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
Good point. Sweden has better institutions and labor laws to reduce friction and enable cooperation. Enterprise bargaining in the US is more zero sum game between companies and workers. Everything you give to workers, reduces competitive edge against non-union competitors. It's in company interest to fight unions as much as possible. In sectoral bargaining , unions negotiate same deal with their counterparts represen…
> Enterprise bargaining in the US is more zero sum game between companies and workers. Everything you give to workers, reduces competitive edge against non-union competitors. It's in company interest to fight unions as much as possible. This is how companies treat enterprise bargaining. It is rarely true. Unions are often after things that benefit both sides. Safety improvements both protect the workers and shield th…
> Unions are often after things that benefit both sides. Safety improvements both protect the workers and shield the company from both injury liability and material losses due to accidents. More generous leave policies and more worker-friendly hours result in happier, healthier, better rested, and therefore more productive workers, which can easily balance out the small reduction in total hours.
In cases where this is actually true, the company would be offering these things of its own volition -- as happens in many industries without unions. So then what would you need the union for?
You could obviously have poorly managed companies that get this wrong, but then they would be at a competitive disadvantage in the market.
Where this more often doesn't happen is in the places where it isn't true. There are some jobs where worker productivity isn't that salient -- or is only relevant to the extent that it allows the company to employ fewer people, which is the sort of thing a union would then try to prevent.
Re: Swedish unions strike: Blocks mail and package deliveries for Tesla
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
Precisely this. This is a perfect example of how corporate ownership of the political process has usurped the actual function of government responsible to the poorest people, in favor of taking care of corporate interests A great example of how oligarchical power is literally built into our legal infrastructure
It's not a given that "the actual function of government responsible to the poorest people" should be the true purpose and focus of government. I would assume that your discontentment is a result of misalignment between what you think is the government's role and what those who make government, think the government's role should be. Which one of you has a more legitimate claim to the truth?
Neither. Both would be attempts at assigning goals to things that aren’t persons. Fallacy of teleological thinking.
Re: Swedish unions strike: Blocks mail and package deliveries for Tesla
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
America pays more but has less of a safety net. I moved from Palo Alto to Stockholm and while I’m paid far less, everything else is cheaper or free. And I get twice the holiday. And I get a years paternity leave. And I don’t have to live in the Bay Area. So many perks, I’m happy to pay ~$80k for them!
How much do you make in Stockholm that you pay $80k in taxes though? I've paid that much in the bay area!
Sorry I meant a reduction of salary, my take home is $80k lower
Re: Swedish unions strike: Blocks mail and package deliveries for Tesla
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
Precisely this. This is a perfect example of how corporate ownership of the political process has usurped the actual function of government responsible to the poorest people, in favor of taking care of corporate interests A great example of how oligarchical power is literally built into our legal infrastructure
> corporate ownership of the political process has usurped the actual function of government responsible to the poorest people This is a curious diagnosis of a late 40s law. Consider why average Americans, including those in the lowest rung, vote against pro-union legislation (or don’t turn out for it), as well as the difference between Swedish and American unions.
They didn't vote for it, or against it. In most countries, citizens don't get to vote on individual laws. We vote people into power, who then hopefully don't enact laws that harm us. But as we all know by now, that's never stopped a politician.
Re: Swedish unions strike: Blocks mail and package deliveries for Tesla
#100American companies often think that European unions are just stronger than unions in Europe. They don't realize that labor and union laws are different. Toys R Us tried the same in Sweden. They initially refused agreement and hired only non-union workers. But transport and logistics workers union and finance union started sympathy strike. Toys R Us didn't get deliveries and bank workers refused work related to compan…
>European unions are just stronger than unions in Europe.
Typo?