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How to stop adulterated turmeric from killing people

economist.com

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Re: How to stop adulterated turmeric from killing people

#91
post #34

> Yet adulterated turmeric looks like a major culprit almost everywhere, chiefly owing to poor practice in India, which produces 75% of the spice. It’s really shocking to me that in the year 2023 people could be intentionally adding lead to food products at this scale. Is this mainly due to greed and corruption? Ignorance? Distrust of modern medicine and health advice? I suppose it’s similar to the problem of people…

It's the result of a heterogeneous, low trust society - you don't care if you are killing someone who's not like you.

Amazing to see primitive racism like this still pop up that can quickly be debunked by simply remembering for one second the hundreds of environmental catastrophes in the US (or Europe for that matter) done by companies for profit and zero compassion for either people or environment - many of them swept under the rug for years until areas become toxic waste dumps.

Thinking a few seconds more; what about a small group of people decimating the lives of millions of americans with opioids (Sackler), or entire industries lobbying for less regulation in foods? The EU banned additives list is way longer and they are healthier.

The problem is about profits, greed, regulation, and a bad form of capitalism where exploitation is outsourced or out of sight. Not about some "dumb people in some shithole somewhere".

Re: How to stop adulterated turmeric from killing people

#92
post #25

> Yet adulterated turmeric looks like a major culprit almost everywhere, chiefly owing to poor practice in India, which produces 75% of the spice. It’s really shocking to me that in the year 2023 people could be intentionally adding lead to food products at this scale. Is this mainly due to greed and corruption? Ignorance? Distrust of modern medicine and health advice? I suppose it’s similar to the problem of people…

It is reminiscent of the Austrian antifreeze wine scandal: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_Austrian_diethylene_gly... That was only a few wineries though, and it was pretty quickly caught and harshly punished. This is apparently a whole industry where the practice of poisoning consumers with lead is normalized.

> That was only a few wineries though (…)

The article you linked shows it was more than that and that the country’s industry was affected.

Re: How to stop adulterated turmeric from killing people

#94
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read it as exactly that - pressure to reduce the prevalence of lead in turmeric. That seems like a reasonable thing to do and place to apply pressure?

The pressure was much more than that, they are pushing for an "openness to foreign expertise" and a "willingness by the government to work with [NGOs]". And they criticise Modi for "driving out foreign donors and dismantling any NGO he considers unfriendly to him". I don't think the problem of tumeric adulteration is something that needs 'foreign expertise' to solve. It's an undeniably serious problem but one that an…

Why the scare quotes[0]? That impacts people throughout the entire world, of course international experts should be part of working groups trying to deal with the situation. How else do you create trust?

0: fixed typo “scary quotes”, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scare_quotes

Re: How to stop adulterated turmeric from killing people

#95
post #94
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pressure was much more than that, they are pushing for an "openness to foreign expertise" and a "willingness by the government to work with [NGOs]". And they criticise Modi for "driving out foreign donors and dismantling any NGO he considers unfriendly to him". I don't think the problem of tumeric adulteration is something that needs 'foreign expertise' to solve. It's an undeniably serious problem but one that an…

Why the scare quotes[0]? That impacts people throughout the entire world, of course international experts should be part of working groups trying to deal with the situation. How else do you create trust? 0: fixed typo “scary quotes”, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scare_quotes

[deleted]

Re: How to stop adulterated turmeric from killing people

#96
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it has to do with archive.is and cloudflare dns being incompatible

Then why have cloudflare running "on" it?

They do not. Archive.is gives back the IP for Cloudflare if the DNS request comes from Cloudflare. There are previous discussions here I dont have the link handy about how the admin of Archive.is does not like that Cloudflare does not forward EDNS Client Subnet information so they give CF their own IP. This causes the client to go to CF despite Archive.is not being a customer of them.

It's the effect of Archive.is banning Cloudflare for not giving up Client Subnet information. The end result is being directed to CF despite Archive.is not being behind them and thus one getting into captcha loops.

On a fun side note, the admin of Archive.is that is here on HN read my blog on how to block their site with 2 IPTables rules and updated their nodes in Russia to a more standard MSS of 1460 and added some more CIDR blocks. I assume the rest of their nodes will follow soon. Well played.

Re: How to stop adulterated turmeric from killing people

#97

> Yet adulterated turmeric looks like a major culprit almost everywhere, chiefly owing to poor practice in India, which produces 75% of the spice. It’s really shocking to me that in the year 2023 people could be intentionally adding lead to food products at this scale. Is this mainly due to greed and corruption? Ignorance? Distrust of modern medicine and health advice? I suppose it’s similar to the problem of people…

[deleted]

Re: How to stop adulterated turmeric from killing people

#98
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does ingesting mercury or lead fight against? While I understand modern medicine does sometimes use things that are toxic, it usually in net fixes what was needed. What does lead and mercury help with when eaten?

> What does ingesting mercury or lead fight against? This is a question for those who are experts in the field of Rasa Shastra .[1][2] Just like questions regarding which poisons/toxins are injected into the human body as treatment, why , and for which illness are questions for experts in the appropriate specializations of modern medicine. [1] A Text Book Of Rasa Shastra(Iatro-Chemistry And Ayurvedic Pharmaceutics) (…

No I don't think it is the same. It easily comes to mind that most treatments of radiation while toxic to the body are used to kill types of cancer. If you are going to say this practice of eating lead and mercury for medicinal purposes is useful, I would think there would be at least a use that comes to mind that you could share instead of books.

I don't think most traditional medicine practices are very useful. Similar to strict religious teaches of what food to eat, Catholic, Jewish, Sattvic diet even. They served a purpose when conceived, perhaps have interesting things that could benefit us today but in a whole. There may be an interesting herb or compound that is actually useful but usually the vast majority of it is either a placebo, damaging to the user or damaging to the environment.

Re: How to stop adulterated turmeric from killing people

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is blaming the plant. Obviously it’s the evil people adding an adulterant to a dietary product. I don’t see how you can victim blame here. People absolutely should be able to pick the best looking alternative on the shelf without fear of being fed a neurotoxin. I’d like to see the argument rendered for how it’s their fault rather than the person poisoning them. PS real turmeric looks like it came from a willy…

The title of the article is blaming the plant.

It's blaming the spice that people consume because it's widely adulterated.

Re: How to stop adulterated turmeric from killing people

#100

> Yet adulterated turmeric looks like a major culprit almost everywhere, chiefly owing to poor practice in India, which produces 75% of the spice. It’s really shocking to me that in the year 2023 people could be intentionally adding lead to food products at this scale. Is this mainly due to greed and corruption? Ignorance? Distrust of modern medicine and health advice? I suppose it’s similar to the problem of people…

There is a great book on the subject called Lying for Money: How Legendary Frauds Reveal the Workings of the World by Dan Davies. It’s a great read and a lot of the discussion of the various factors that contribute to these types of scam behaviors and cultures and is definitely good reading, though the book is a little disjointed in how it’s written. But I recently listened to it out Audible and it was a fairly in depth discussion on the many factors that answer your exact question so I thought I’d share.

Here’s a good excerpt:

https://crimereads.com/why-just-about-every-country-seems-to...

The Canadian Paradox

Some places in the world are what they call “low-trust societies.” The political institutions are fragile and corrupt, business practices are dodgy, debts are rarely repaid, and people, rightly, fear being ripped off on any transaction. In the “high-trust societies,” conversely, businesses are honest, laws are fair and consistently enforced, and the majority of people can go about their day in the knowledge that the overall level of integrity in economic life is very high. With that in mind, given what we know about the following two countries, why is it that the Canadian financial sector is so fraud-ridden that Joe Queenan, writing in Forbes magazine in 1985, nicknamed Vancouver the “Scam Capital of the World,” while shipowners in Greece will regularly do multimillion-dollar deals on a handshake? We might call this the “Canadian Paradox.” There are different kinds of dishonesty in the world. The most profitable kind is commercial fraud, and commercial fraud is parasitical on the overall health of the business sector on which it preys. It is much more difficult to be a fraudster in a society in which people do business only with relatives or where commerce is based on family networks going back for centuries. It is much easier to carry out a securities fraud in a market where dishonesty is the rare exception rather than the everyday rule.

The existence of the Canadian Paradox suggests that there is a specifically economic dimension to a certain kind of crime of dishonesty. Trust—particularly between complete strangers, with no interactions besides relatively anonymous market transactions—is the basis of the modern industrial economy. And the story of the development of the modern economy is in large part the story of the invention and improvement of technologies and institutions for managing that trust. In other words, many things about the way the business world is organized make a lot more sense when you realize that they exist because of the constant drive for countries to become less like Greece and more like Canada.

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