No dogs were harmed in the making of this app • Hacker News Board

Re: No dogs were harmed in the making of this app

#91

Post by knaidofngio » Fri, Nov 03, 2023, 6:31 PM UTC

zoogeny wrote: post #83

knaidofngio wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The implication being that no lives were on the line if we made a mistake. This was when I was making games but it also applies to just about every CRUD app I've written. I don't agree. Maybe a failure won't result in people dying in a ball of fire, but it can still cause harm. Even minor harm can still add up at scale. Frustration from a buggy game could lead to real-world road rage or shouting matches. People have…

It is fair to misunderstand what I was saying since all things are ambiguous. Without context I could see this being interpreted as permission for people to be lazy, incautious or even negligent. But I urge you to consider the other side of the spectrum and the pressures that people can put on themselves. For some, in their search for perfection, they can ruin their own lives. They can see every mistake they make as…

I never thought you said that sloppiness is acceptable. I edited my comment to try to make that clearer.

But I think we should remember that everything matters. People's lives are not mostly made of weddings and funerals and gun fights and plane crashes. They're mostly made of chores and small talk and dumb little mobile games. Nothing is really trivial. You shouldn't beat yourself up over mistakes, but that's not because they don't matter.

Re: No dogs were harmed in the making of this app

#92

Post by wruza » Fri, Nov 03, 2023, 6:31 PM UTC

smt88 wrote: post #47

s1artibartfast wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the moral of the story that the hardware engineer is simply correct? - a mechanical engineer

It's mostly just a joke about how these roles do their jobs. But I think it's also partly illuminating the fact that hardware engineers are true engineers, while software engineers mostly aren't.

Why not hire hardware engineers to write software then?

Re: No dogs were harmed in the making of this app

#93

Post by slingnow » Fri, Nov 03, 2023, 6:35 PM UTC

kd5bjo wrote: post #58

s1artibartfast wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the moral of the story that the hardware engineer is simply correct? - a mechanical engineer

Or perhaps that nobody had the common sense to call a tow truck , so that they can get down the mountain without relying on a field repair to a safety-critical system.

This makes a lot of assumptions about how far into the wilderness they were, time of day, accessibility of the roads, cell phone signal, and so on. To just hand wave and call it "common sense" is silly without the rest of the context.

And for me, 100 times out of 100 I'm taking the capable guy who can fix the brakes on a trip like this over someone who's first and (likely) only instinct is to call a tow truck.

Re: No dogs were harmed in the making of this app

#94

Post by mock-possum » Fri, Nov 03, 2023, 6:36 PM UTC

tmpz22 wrote: post #79

renewiltord wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. We’re scientists. Replication is important! :)

> True. We’re scientists. Replication is important! :) Yes replication: Oops we got hacked. I wonder what happens if we write insecure code again. Oops we got hacked. I wonder what happens if we write insecure code again. Oops we missed a deadline. I wonder what happens if we underestimate again. Oops we missed a deadline. I wonder what happens if we underestimate again.

Wow somebody’s salty

Re: No dogs were harmed in the making of this app

#95

Post by smt88 » Fri, Nov 03, 2023, 6:40 PM UTC

wruza wrote: post #92

smt88 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's mostly just a joke about how these roles do their jobs. But I think it's also partly illuminating the fact that hardware engineers are true engineers, while software engineers mostly aren't.

Why not hire hardware engineers to write software then?

Software engineers are cheaper and more plentiful

Re: No dogs were harmed in the making of this app

#96

Post by mock-possum » Fri, Nov 03, 2023, 6:45 PM UTC

feintruled wrote: post #4

That's quite a tale, a parable almost about how software engineering differs from other jobs (I want to say 'real' jobs but tongue in cheek). I like this one too, it's even snappier. A software engineer, a hardware engineer and a department manager were on their way to a meeting in Switzerland. They were driving down a steep mountain road when suddenly the brakes on their car failed. The car careened almost out of co…

If you could click ‘relaunch’ and the car would miraculously reappear at the top of the hill and repeat the event, allowing you to freeze time at the instant the brakes failed, then pull apart every piece of the car so you could precisely observe the failure in real-time, in slow mo, and in reverse - to pinpoint exactly what the problem was

You’re saying the power to do that makes software engineers ridiculous or impractical?

Engineering inside a digital space gives the kind of debugging abilities that would be straight up miraculous in a physical disciple. If I have one thing, and I want to make ten more of those to test in ten different ways, it’s literally just CTRL+C, CTRL+V. Let’s see a mechanic do that.

Re: No dogs were harmed in the making of this app

#97

Post by atq2119 » Fri, Nov 03, 2023, 6:45 PM UTC

slingnow wrote: post #93

kd5bjo wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or perhaps that nobody had the common sense to call a tow truck , so that they can get down the mountain without relying on a field repair to a safety-critical system.

This makes a lot of assumptions about how far into the wilderness they were, time of day, accessibility of the roads, cell phone signal, and so on. To just hand wave and call it "common sense" is silly without the rest of the context. And for me, 100 times out of 100 I'm taking the capable guy who can fix the brakes on a trip like this over someone who's first and (likely) only instinct is to call a tow truck.

As long as we're overanalyzing a joke, it's Switzerland. There isn't really a lot of wilderness there ...

Re: No dogs were harmed in the making of this app

#98

Post by s1artibartfast » Fri, Nov 03, 2023, 6:51 PM UTC

wruza wrote: post #92

smt88 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's mostly just a joke about how these roles do their jobs. But I think it's also partly illuminating the fact that hardware engineers are true engineers, while software engineers mostly aren't.

Why not hire hardware engineers to write software then?

Because software development isnt an engineering task.

Engineers are good at building bridges, and artists are good at making paintings. That doesnt mean it is a good idea to have the engineers paint paintings.

Re: No dogs were harmed in the making of this app

#99

Post by zoogeny » Fri, Nov 03, 2023, 6:52 PM UTC

knaidofngio wrote: post #91

zoogeny wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is fair to misunderstand what I was saying since all things are ambiguous. Without context I could see this being interpreted as permission for people to be lazy, incautious or even negligent. But I urge you to consider the other side of the spectrum and the pressures that people can put on themselves. For some, in their search for perfection, they can ruin their own lives. They can see every mistake they make as…

I never thought you said that sloppiness is acceptable. I edited my comment to try to make that clearer. But I think we should remember that everything matters. People's lives are not mostly made of weddings and funerals and gun fights and plane crashes. They're mostly made of chores and small talk and dumb little mobile games. Nothing is really trivial. You shouldn't beat yourself up over mistakes, but that's not be…

Sure, everything matters. But some things matter more than others. If my internet fails for an afternoon that seems to matter less than if my wedding is a catastrophe. If my video game crashes that seems to matter less than a plane crash. We call this "putting things into perspective".

I mentioned the word "humility" in another response and that is the crux of what I'm trying to communicate. It is often the case that we can exaggerate the importance of our own work and it often helps to take a step back and humble oneself. If you find yourself losing sleep over your work, if you find your anxiety levels high, perhaps you need some perspective. Perhaps you find it distasteful for me to suggest that the engineering work of air-traffic control software matters more than most CRUD apps. That doesn't mean every other kind of software has zero worth. It just provides an anchor for perspective - a kind of software where literally thousands of lives are at stake 24 hours per day. Most developers are not under that kind of stress.

Re: No dogs were harmed in the making of this app

#100

Post by tom_ » Fri, Nov 03, 2023, 6:53 PM UTC

wruza wrote: post #92

smt88 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's mostly just a joke about how these roles do their jobs. But I think it's also partly illuminating the fact that hardware engineers are true engineers, while software engineers mostly aren't.

Why not hire hardware engineers to write software then?

Try it and report back!