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X says it is worth $19B, down from $44B last year

nytimes.com

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Re: X says it is worth $19B, down from $44B last year

#91

Post by goalieca »

realcertify wrote: post #90
mullingitover wrote: post #44

The "Elon is saving free speech, so this is worth it" argument for this incredible destruction of value is what cracks me up. The internet had/has no problem hosting repugnant viewpoints. Plenty of web hosting providers are available for you to share your most vile, hateful thoughts. We're watching a very powerful person discover in real time that free speech isn't something that generates value on its own.

"Destruction of value" assumes that Elon paid what Twitter was worth back then, which is not necessarily true.

It’s definitely not true. Elon way overpaid for Twitter and even tried to back out. Twitter was also in poor financial shape and it was losing money. Frankly after this many years I couldn’t see it as a growth stock.

Re: X says it is worth $19B, down from $44B last year

#92

Post by dragontamer »

goalieca wrote: post #91
realcertify wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Destruction of value" assumes that Elon paid what Twitter was worth back then, which is not necessarily true.

It’s definitely not true. Elon way overpaid for Twitter and even tried to back out. Twitter was also in poor financial shape and it was losing money. Frankly after this many years I couldn’t see it as a growth stock.

Twitter was losing $200 million/year in 2021 IIRC.

Taking a $13 Billion loan and therefore being charged $1.3 Billion/year in interest payments means its going down the Xitter faster than ever before. The amount of loan-payments Twitter had to make this year alone dwarfs the losses Twitter had over the past decade.

Re: X says it is worth $19B, down from $44B last year

#93

Post by Exmoor »

reddog wrote: post #67

Meanwhile, SpaceX valuation has increased about $35 billion over the same time period. At his current net worth, Musk will be able to underwrite Twitter for the next 3 centuries before he starts running out of money.

...And TSLA is down about $80 billion in that time period.

Re: X says it is worth $19B, down from $44B last year

#94

Post by nagonago »

TheAlchemist wrote: post #85
sshine wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> push his 'optimism' way too far (for which, I believe, he will end up in prison) Eh, care to elaborate?

Sure. Musk was always very 'optimistic' about Tesla goals and timeline estimates. That's fine (I guess) when you're a small company trying to achieve a major breakthrough. And they did actually deliver and started to mass produce EV cars - absolutely impressive result. But in the process, Musk also started to promise more and more impossible things, on a bigger and bigger scale - FSD (almost 10 years ?), Robotaxis (!…

As much as I would love to see Musk imprisoned, I don't see how those things would lead to jail time. Are you saying he might be accused of defrauding investors? I think that would be a pretty hard sell in court.

Re: X says it is worth $19B, down from $44B last year

#95

Post by sshine »

TheAlchemist wrote: post #85
sshine wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> push his 'optimism' way too far (for which, I believe, he will end up in prison) Eh, care to elaborate?

Sure. Musk was always very 'optimistic' about Tesla goals and timeline estimates. That's fine (I guess) when you're a small company trying to achieve a major breakthrough. And they did actually deliver and started to mass produce EV cars - absolutely impressive result. But in the process, Musk also started to promise more and more impossible things, on a bigger and bigger scale - FSD (almost 10 years ?), Robotaxis (!…

I should have been more specific.

I’m not asking about his optimism, but why he should be imprisoned.

You didn’t mention anything criminal, so I’m going to assume FUD.

Re: X says it is worth $19B, down from $44B last year

#96

Post by TheAlchemist »

sshine wrote: post #95
TheAlchemist wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. Musk was always very 'optimistic' about Tesla goals and timeline estimates. That's fine (I guess) when you're a small company trying to achieve a major breakthrough. And they did actually deliver and started to mass produce EV cars - absolutely impressive result. But in the process, Musk also started to promise more and more impossible things, on a bigger and bigger scale - FSD (almost 10 years ?), Robotaxis (!…

I should have been more specific. I’m not asking about his optimism, but why he should be imprisoned. You didn’t mention anything criminal, so I’m going to assume FUD.

I did not say he should, I'm saying that I just think he will.

Well, all this optimism (and I omitted several other important misrepresentation of Tesla business, made by Musk) is looking like that - just too much optimism. Keep in mind, their current valuation is based solely on those promises (or shall I say misrepresentation of reality) - they're not making that much money, their margin are contracting quickly, and they are a rather small carmaker as compared to others.

However, I'm betting that fast forward 3 years, Tesla share price tanks 90% from now (that would still leave it bigger than Ford !!!) and Tesla won't deliver any meaningful progress on all those 'optimistic' predictions, people's feeling about this period will be much different.

Edit: For what it's worth, Sam Antar (former CFO of the Crazy Eddie - a huge securities fraud. He's now working for the government) is also regularly picking on Musk - he's seeing a lot of red flags.

Also, for what it's worth, it's CFO was recently fired. Without any comments as for why.

Re: X says it is worth $19B, down from $44B last year

#97

Post by TheAlchemist »

nagonago wrote: post #94
TheAlchemist wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. Musk was always very 'optimistic' about Tesla goals and timeline estimates. That's fine (I guess) when you're a small company trying to achieve a major breakthrough. And they did actually deliver and started to mass produce EV cars - absolutely impressive result. But in the process, Musk also started to promise more and more impossible things, on a bigger and bigger scale - FSD (almost 10 years ?), Robotaxis (!…

As much as I would love to see Musk imprisoned, I don't see how those things would lead to jail time. Are you saying he might be accused of defrauding investors? I think that would be a pretty hard sell in court.

Exactly - defrauding investors, see my answer below.

It's a hard sell for now, that's for sure. Once the stock inevitably crashes, it will be a different story.

Re: X says it is worth $19B, down from $44B last year

#98

Post by rsynnott »

> “For people that don’t see our vision yet, people that don’t see what’s happening here at X, stop giving any of that oxygen,” she said. “Don’t pay attention to it.”

Yes, don't listen to the outsiders who question the Vision. They're only doing so because they haven't purged themselves of their body thetans, yet.

There's a blurry line between over-enthusiastic corporate-speak, and cult-speak, and this is sitting somewhere on the line.

Re: X says it is worth $19B, down from $44B last year

#99

Post by wredue »

mikeyouse wrote: post #77
wredue wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>twitters stock was trading for $45 a charge before any rumor of acquisition What is this, alternate reality land? It was trading for $16 (albeit this was a low point) a share when Musk started his pump and dump scheme, which rocketed the value to 45 a share, which is the point that Musk decided he doesn’t want it and also began proceedings to dump stock. There were ATH in the $45 range, but TWTR was on a clear downw…

You should maybe look at a stock chart instead of making silly, easily disprovable statements from memory like "ATH in the $45 range"? It nearly reached $80 in 2021... It spent several months above $60/share. https://imgur.com/a/VsoZ7mD I don't have quick access to share prices older than Jan 1st 2019 - but from that date through the date of Elon's first share purchase on Jan 31st, 2022 - Twitter's average price was…

I only went back enough to look at the Musk nonsense. So I guess I should have worded “the highs in the several months leading up to twitter were around $45, but twitter tanked and was still trending down at $16 when musk started attempting to manipulate the market”.

We aren’t talking about when musk first purchased shares. We’re talking about when twitter was trading at $16 when musk attempted to then manipulate the stock market by stating he’d buy twitter, which shot twitter back up.

Re: X says it is worth $19B, down from $44B last year

#100

Post by tim333 »

pstuart wrote: post #26
c420 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was that his 4D chess plan all along?

The fact that he tried to get out of the deal is evidence that he had acted impulsively.

Apparently his ex asked him to buy it. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11279731/Talulah-Ri...
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