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Marcel the Shell

marceltheshell.org

91–100 of 209 posts

Re: Marcel the Shell

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely there is some copyright infringement here?

You’re thinking trademark infringement. IANAL, but I wouldn’t worry about it. Worse comes to worst, you could rename it. That’s what Firefox did.

The likelihood of confusion is low. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_trademark_law#In...

Re: Marcel the Shell

#92
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it was a bunch of cute little web videos by Jenny Slate at least a decade before there was a real movie.

[flagged]

It is a useful correction. This project predates the release of the movie: https://github.com/geophile/marcel/commit/bb6adacbb6b3a683ce...

Re: Marcel the Shell

#93
post #86

First of all - Linuxes and alike desperately need something like this shell becoming standard. And second - I always wonder how all these great minds who where throwing rubbish at Microsoft ever since... somehow forgot to mention that same company created important product called PowerShell like 20 years ago. And you know PowerShell is so good already you can easily drop it in any OS/X, Linux and it actually works. N…

I hear you, and I have tried it, but the commands feel gratuitously different to me.

Also they squandered the opportunity to make the output interactive like with the Lisp machines. That would also have helped smooth the learning curve.

Re: Marcel the Shell

#94
post #86

First of all - Linuxes and alike desperately need something like this shell becoming standard. And second - I always wonder how all these great minds who where throwing rubbish at Microsoft ever since... somehow forgot to mention that same company created important product called PowerShell like 20 years ago. And you know PowerShell is so good already you can easily drop it in any OS/X, Linux and it actually works. N…

In defense of the Microsoft-haters, powershell is a fantastic idea with terrible ergonomics. When they first released it I was very excited but, well, it’s just awful to use.

Terrible Get-Finger-Twister -Recurse -Awfully commands, quirky aliases (you can type “curl” but it takes none of curl’s parameters because it’s an alias for Get-WebRequest-Annoyingly or whatever they called it), simple scripting things such as “include file relative to current script” (and not relative to current working directory), etc etc: anything that should’ve been simple and easy was neither.

I’ve stopped paying attention, so maybe they fixed this since then but it really wasn't a very well done system during its first decade or so.

Re: Marcel the Shell

#95
post #86

First of all - Linuxes and alike desperately need something like this shell becoming standard. And second - I always wonder how all these great minds who where throwing rubbish at Microsoft ever since... somehow forgot to mention that same company created important product called PowerShell like 20 years ago. And you know PowerShell is so good already you can easily drop it in any OS/X, Linux and it actually works. N…

I hear you, and I have tried it, but the commands feel gratuitously different to me. Also they squandered the opportunity to make the output interactive like with the Lisp machines. That would also have helped smooth the learning curve.

The worst part of it is they aliased a bunch of common posix command names to their power shell equivalents but then they have different flags or semantics. Works fine until it trips you up destructively.

Re: Marcel the Shell

#96
post #86

First of all - Linuxes and alike desperately need something like this shell becoming standard. And second - I always wonder how all these great minds who where throwing rubbish at Microsoft ever since... somehow forgot to mention that same company created important product called PowerShell like 20 years ago. And you know PowerShell is so good already you can easily drop it in any OS/X, Linux and it actually works. N…

In defense of the Microsoft-haters, powershell is a fantastic idea with terrible ergonomics. When they first released it I was very excited but, well, it’s just awful to use. Terrible Get-Finger-Twister -Recurse -Awfully commands, quirky aliases (you can type “curl” but it takes none of curl’s parameters because it’s an alias for Get-WebRequest-Annoyingly or whatever they called it), simple scripting things such as “…

While I tend to agree, a lot of commands also have pretty good aliases.

For example `iwr` for Invoke-Web-Request.

Also the full names are only expected to be used in scripts to maintain readability. No one types that in the console. Also ALL Parameters can be abbreviated if they are unique. If no other Parameter starts with R then -R is enough for -Recurse. (there are some quirks with this, but generally pretty intuitive)

And using select or for-each on actual types is magical, instead of grepping/shedding/parsing a maybe standardized string, with completely unsensical names (like grep or sed)

If you give bash and pwsh the same time and love, they will become both pretty ergonomic

Re: Marcel the Shell

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wrote marcel. In my view, nushell and marcel are very similar. nushell has tabular output, which I haven't thought was all that useful. Marcel is python-based. The nushell guys have had to invent a lot of language. By basing marcel on python, I don't have to invent language. Any logic to be added is expressed in python. E.g, do a recursive listing of files and find those that changed in the last 3 days: ls -fr | se…

In that case, is it even more similar to xonsh? https://xon.sh/

[deleted]

Re: Marcel the Shell

#98
post #83
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using the output of find into another program is not safe due to risk of file names containing delimiters. You need to use find -exec. Good example of why machine readable output is important. Agree that the tutorial should showcase more and larger such examples.

Yes, I know that, but it's also exceedingly rare for a filename to contain a newline and using -exec is extremely inefficient. I also wrote that on my iPad. Typically I'd use a combination of -print0 and xargs -0 for anything more formal than a one-liner on the command line. The larger bug in my example is that it fails if any of the directories in the path contain a "." in their name!

[flagged]

Re: Marcel the Shell

#99
post #86

First of all - Linuxes and alike desperately need something like this shell becoming standard. And second - I always wonder how all these great minds who where throwing rubbish at Microsoft ever since... somehow forgot to mention that same company created important product called PowerShell like 20 years ago. And you know PowerShell is so good already you can easily drop it in any OS/X, Linux and it actually works. N…

You're right on the text vs structure point, but then pwsh is unfortunately slow and unergonomic enough that makes the transition from a better modern shell (so, not bash) harder, especially with a better and more common language like python

Re: Marcel the Shell

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear you, and I have tried it, but the commands feel gratuitously different to me. Also they squandered the opportunity to make the output interactive like with the Lisp machines. That would also have helped smooth the learning curve.

The worst part of it is they aliased a bunch of common posix command names to their power shell equivalents but then they have different flags or semantics. Works fine until it trips you up destructively.

They even made their own broken curl, which to me is straight up trademark infringement (ethically speaking at least, IANAL)

Making alternative implementations of the core utilities is only customary, but the curl name is is directly tied to the reputation of Daniel Stenberg, which is one of exceptional skill, integrity and attention to quality and security.

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