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Raspberry Pi 5: available now

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Re: Raspberry Pi 5: available now

#91
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2. X86 System A lot of the small/mini/micro form-factor systems (even ~five year old used corporate machines) are almost always the (significantly) better option at the price point. I bought a used Dell SFF system a couple of weeks ago for $119 that runs circles around the Pi in every way (16GB RAM, NVMe, real I/O, real USB, PCIe, six core i5, etc) while idling at 9 watts, which makes little difference in operating…

Dell SFF Systems I’ve looked at are huge. They are like 3-4x the size of a Pi 5. Is there a specific model that is more comparable in size to the Pi?

It's a fair point but I guess I can't wrap my head around it. Within a square foot you get at least 10x the capability and expansion of a Pi.I'm probably limited by my own perspective and bias but I can't understand someone not being able to find a square foot for a device that can replace any number of things, in my case even my router. Inch for inch they can't be matched but I suppose if you really only have a few inches a Pi is your best bet. I'm just glad I'm not in that situation.

I did reference the "mini/micro" variants which are significantly smaller - with the sacrifice being loss of PCIe which when it comes to x16 + x4 slots there really isn't any way to get around. Mine can also take two 2.5" SATA drives depending on how you feel about that.

Re: Raspberry Pi 5: available now

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of people buy these on a finite hobby budget.

Is there some missing context here, like "...and they only have ten dollars to spend on hobbies during the entirety of 2023 due to the famine wracking their homeland?" I mean, when you're talking about things (items in your "finite hobby budget") that cost less than a hundred dollars, why are you going to fuss about the "price point?" I am intrigued by how much this appears to matter to people who comment on Raspberr…

As a software guy I make far more than average. Yet in this past year I have looked at and rejected buying for my hobbies many $$$ worth of toys because I cannot afford it. Well I could, but my family vacation took priority (this could be considered part of the hobby budget). Most years the total cost of things I want for my hobbies exceeds my annual pre-tax income, but this year made an effort to not look and I still came close.

At least as someone who makes a lot of money I have plenty of good food and a dry roof over my head. However that doesn't mean I have infinite money in the hobby budget.

Re: Raspberry Pi 5: available now

#93
post #26

I wonder if the RPi5 is finally enough for browsing the web and watching media without hiccups. My experience with RPi4 was too sluggish.

Not saying this applies, but: The speed of the raspberry pi goes up dramatically when using a fast USB disk instead of micro SD. Most people start with a micro SD, and I had no idea how much faster a Pi could go.

Now that the RPi 5 exposes a PCIe interface, I have a feeling we're going to see a lot more folks adopting it as a NAS.

Re: Raspberry Pi 5: available now

#94
Reminder that rpi refuses to specially sell to educators, the supposed target and whole purpose of their mission. Those that need them can't get it because the purchasing processes in orgs means they're out of stock before it can be bought.

Re: Raspberry Pi 5: available now

#95
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2. X86 System A lot of the small/mini/micro form-factor systems (even ~five year old used corporate machines) are almost always the (significantly) better option at the price point. I bought a used Dell SFF system a couple of weeks ago for $119 that runs circles around the Pi in every way (16GB RAM, NVMe, real I/O, real USB, PCIe, six core i5, etc) while idling at 9 watts, which makes little difference in operating…

things micro pcs cannot do: - rpi has GPIO pins - many rpi boards' max power consumption is around the idling power consumption of a pc, rpi zero 2 can run off a standard usb A port of a laptop - rpi zero 1/2, rpi 3A and rpi 4 has usb gadget mode which means it can be plugged to a notebook and two machines will connect over usb ethernet. That is especially helpful for debugging headless machines when in a hotel room…

> - rpi has GPIO pins

This is certainly one of the "bespoke applications" I was referencing. That said, I tend to feel that USB GPIO boards[0] are more capable and flexible when/if you need GPIO. There's also the ESP32 series which almost always make more sense for me at least. You can add as many of these as you want to meet any GPIO need you will ever have. In almost every case I've needed GPIO having it available over wifi vs being limited to a few inches from a Raspberry Pi has been tremendously more useful.

> - many rpi boards' max power consumption is around the idling power consumption of a pc, rpi zero 2 can run off a standard usb A port of a laptop

Fair enough, but how often does this really matter? I'm not advocating for unnecessary burning of the planet but as an example at $0.20 per kWh a seven watt delta comes down to $1/mo which (to me, at least) is nothing over the lifetime of the hardware when factoring in the dramatically improved capability.

> - rpi zero 1/2, rpi 3A and rpi 4 has usb gadget mode which means it can be plugged to a notebook and two machines will connect over usb ethernet. That is especially helpful for debugging headless machines when in a hotel room (no wifi under your control, no ethernet cable).

Another bespoke application that is perfectly fair. This can also be achieved with a tiny travel router (I LOVE mine) which will also run circles around gadget mode in terms of performance and functionality - significantly better Wifi, multiple real ethernet ports, it's own USB host for whatever. Running OpenWRT of course so it's still a Linux machine you can do whatever with - including connecting the USB GPIO boards I referenced above.

> - yes microsd is slow, but it's also cheap and easy to swap. That means you can: 1. if a board is broken then take out the card and insert it into another board. It will take you 2 minutes max and then everything will be exactly the same. 2. clone your entire microsd card as backup 3. you can swap different OS by swapping microsd. No need to partition your harddisk.

MicroSD is EXTREMELY slow and unreliable when compared to NVMe, microsd is cheap but you "get what you pay for". You can also achieve similar cost, swap-ability, and ease of overall use with USB flash drives which are often higher performance and more reliable anyway. A full EFI BIOS, bootloader, etc comes in very handy.

These are generally excellent points but the vast majority of Raspberry Pi use cases seem to be people looking for a linux machine/home server/etc that doesn't touch any of this functionality.

But hey, in the end use what works for you!

[0] - https://www.adafruit.com/product/2264

Re: Raspberry Pi 5: available now

#96

Can I please have a Raspberry Pi 500? I like the idea of the Pi 400 - a computer inside a keyboard. And I'm looking forward to having a Pi 5 inside one. Anyone know when I can buy one of these for my daughter?

If a Pi 500 were to be made it should be a carrier case for the Pi5 compute module. The Pi as a keyboard form factor is too limiting.

Re: Raspberry Pi 5: available now

#97
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have 3 choices: 1. Raspberry Pi 2. X86 System 3. Barely functioning SOCs with no mainline support and major software issues until eternity.

> 2. X86 System A lot of the small/mini/micro form-factor systems (even ~five year old used corporate machines) are almost always the (significantly) better option at the price point. I bought a used Dell SFF system a couple of weeks ago for $119 that runs circles around the Pi in every way (16GB RAM, NVMe, real I/O, real USB, PCIe, six core i5, etc) while idling at 9 watts, which makes little difference in operating…

When I was living in Israel, I was never able to find reasonably priced older 2nd hand x86s; there is no eBay culture, and somehow when companies have an upgrade cycle and retire a lot of old hardware, it is always to middle men who then ask for ridiculous prices (like 70% of price of new, faster, more efficient, cooler machine).

I wonder if that’s unique to Israel, or if the ease of getting reasonable 2nd hand hardware is unique to the US.

Re: Raspberry Pi 5: available now

#98
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

X86 machines have had perfectly fine idle wattages for ages now. I’m not sure why people think an x86 machine is sucking 50W at all times or something.

Anecdata: I have a netbook from around 2009 with an Atom processor. Default clock is 1.6 GHz but I ran it at 800 MHz. With an SSD inside, it sips power and ran 24/7 basic web services for years.

no actual data here: no power (Watts) provided for the netbook to enable a fair comparison.

It's great that it did not become ewaste, and a computer you have is better than one you don't have, but people likely shouldn't pick up old netbooks over something like a pi.

Re: Raspberry Pi 5: available now

#99
post #93
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not saying this applies, but: The speed of the raspberry pi goes up dramatically when using a fast USB disk instead of micro SD. Most people start with a micro SD, and I had no idea how much faster a Pi could go.

Now that the RPi 5 exposes a PCIe interface, I have a feeling we're going to see a lot more folks adopting it as a NAS.

If only FreeNAS (TrueNAS now?) would run on it

Re: Raspberry Pi 5: available now

#100

I'm sorry but it got too expensive and hence lost its main advantage. These days I use second-hand desktop mini-pcs that cost minimally more than the full Rpi set (charger, CD card, case, SBC) but are much more powerful. For anything involving WiFi/IoT, I use ESP32 - far less expensive and very easy to use. And for cases where WiFi is not needed, we have tons of interesting solutions and few reasons to use the Pi.

> I'm sorry but it got too expensive and hence lost its main advantage.

I don't think that estimate takes into account the power savings you'd get from an ARM sbc versus a NUC or NUC-like minipic.

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