The "Not Just Bikes" channel on YouTube offers good analysis on how city planning is detrimental to the independence of children and young people.
Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health
91–100 of 124 posts
Re: Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
Playing in your yard isn't really "minimal supervision". You probably just didn't know how often your parents checked on you. And you would have known that your parent could just look outside and see you. As a 8 or 9-year-old, could you go to a friends house, to the store, or to school without parental supervision? Did you have safe bike lanes to do this? Was there safe public transportation? Sidewalks on busier stre…
I live in the USA and we picked our neighborhood specifically because of these things. My kid has been going to her friend’s houses by herself since she was 5. She goes down the block (sometimes a couple of blocks! Friends of friends) to her friend’s houses. I feel like we changed the culture in the neighborhood. Kids come out and go to our house and other houses all the time. It’s a good, safe neighborhood. Of cours…
Good for you. I wish everyone were like this. Waiting for the birth of my daughter next month and worried about this chance in the culture.
Re: Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've been riding in a big west coast city for the better part of two decades, and I have definitely not been able to rely on dedicated bike paths (or even multimodal "trails") to get around. I mostly ride in the road, and often in the car lane rather than a paint-separated bike lane when I judge that the latter is unsafe (can happen for various reasons but mostly conflicts with cars turning right, pulling out, etc.).…
I've been riding in a big west coast city for the better part of two decades, and I have definitely not been able to rely on dedicated bike paths (or even multimodal "trails") to get around. Fair enough, but that's not what I said. I said locally, and neighbourhood. You elude to this later in your comment, but it seems unjust to reply, and refue my comment, while changing scope. These are kids. They can bike locally…
> I said locally, and neighbourhood.
I think the problem with your model is that it conflates these two concepts, which may sometimes be appropriate but definitely isn't universal. For example, if you walk about 3/4 of a block east from my house you will hit a relatively busy arterial that is honestly one of the more dangerous roads I've ever ridden on, with broken sight lines due to parked cars (which also constitute a dooring hazard), lots of cars pulling in and out from side streets and parking spots, delivery drivers blocking the bike lane, a busy pedestrian crossing (again with very poor visibility), and cracked and rutted pavement. Just from their small stature alone, a child riding on this road would be in significantly more danger than an adult would, to say nothing of the skill and experience it takes to navigate so many simultaneous conflicts safely.
On the other hand, if you walk west from my house, you can go the better part of a mile through a quiet, shady neighborhood before hitting a main road.
Now what is "local" and what is "neighborhood"? Is the grocery store about a 3 minute walk east of my house not "local" just because to get there you have to at least cross this busy, relatively dangerous arterial? I don't think that makes sense. However, it's definitely not part of my neighborhood in the go ride around the neighborhood sense I understood as a child growing up in the suburbs. So in my view I am not changing the scope of the conversation, but rather trying to draw your attention to a distinction that may not exist in the locales you have experience with, but is important in some of those you don't.
Re: Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've been riding in a big west coast city for the better part of two decades, and I have definitely not been able to rely on dedicated bike paths (or even multimodal "trails") to get around. Fair enough, but that's not what I said. I said locally, and neighbourhood. You elude to this later in your comment, but it seems unjust to reply, and refue my comment, while changing scope. These are kids. They can bike locally…
> I said locally, and neighbourhood. I think the problem with your model is that it conflates these two concepts, which may sometimes be appropriate but definitely isn't universal. For example, if you walk about 3/4 of a block east from my house you will hit a relatively busy arterial that is honestly one of the more dangerous roads I've ever ridden on, with broken sight lines due to parked cars (which also constitut…
Well this is why I stipulated only crossing busy main roads, and going to local, quiet strip malls, and otherwise being on side roads.
This added context to my statements about local, and neighbourhood, and all kids get directions such as "but don't do that!!", it's part of life as a kid. And frankly, an adult, though it be self prescribed.
Naturally each situation is different, but busy rodes have traffic lights, otherwise you might tell the youngster "never cross that road".
And that still leaves loads of low risk areas, which ypu yourself admit is viewed as local.
I see a lot of either/or in some topics, and local non-car travel seems to be a big one. People want to rail on about fewer cars, it's not safe, more bike paths needed etc etc. And I find that any conversation revolving around it being safe ... anywhere to bike, elicits these sort of absolutist responses.
"It's just not safe!!!!"
But the reality is, it is safe... just with conditionals, which I mentioned, and with instructions to child, and of course taking into account the specific child too.
And this is how to avoid helicopter parenting. You don't use a cell phone tracker, to make sure they obeyed, you don't follow them around, you give restrictions and work with that.
Re: Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I said locally, and neighbourhood. I think the problem with your model is that it conflates these two concepts, which may sometimes be appropriate but definitely isn't universal. For example, if you walk about 3/4 of a block east from my house you will hit a relatively busy arterial that is honestly one of the more dangerous roads I've ever ridden on, with broken sight lines due to parked cars (which also constitut…
Well this is why I stipulated only crossing busy main roads, and going to local, quiet strip malls, and otherwise being on side roads. This added context to my statements about local, and neighbourhood, and all kids get directions such as "but don't do that!!", it's part of life as a kid. And frankly, an adult, though it be self prescribed. Naturally each situation is different, but busy rodes have traffic lights, ot…
If your point is that biking locally is safe anywhere (excepting absurd scenarios) for children as long as they can be trusted to accurately internalize and unerringly obey a complex set of directives concerning which roads they are allowed to ride on, where and how to cross those they are not, and warnings of hazards they aren't experientially equipped to intuitively understand, then sure, I agree with you.
However, in practice, I think you will find that there are very good reasons you see a lot of younger kids out walking by themselves in neighborhoods like mine, but very few on bikes (unattended). If it just came down to "helicopter parenting", you would not see the former either.
Re: Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health
#96This is something that free range parenting advocates have been talking about for a long time. See https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/09/03/6412565... . For me one of the most compelling data points wasn't even a parenting reference. It was https://www.amazon.com/Millionaire-Next-Door-Surprising-Amer... . First published in the mid-1990s, the chapters on the children of millionaires found that the more su…
One important thing that the NPR story completely glosses over is the component of race and class that permeates this issue. It’s not an accident that the prototypical mom of the “free range kid” movement is white and lives in a relatively wealthy neighborhood like the one mentioned in the story. Poor black and brown women are disproportionately targeted by child welfare authorities starting literally from birth. htt…
In a real socialist society, neglect would need to be explicitly determined by parents.
Re: Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
They could bike, but how many neighborhoods are safely bikeable?
Every one I've ever seen. Most places I've seen, yes in the US, have bike paths, and houses are typically in a separate area from main thoroughfares. Why wouldn't a kid bike to a friend's house, or a local park?
Statistically speaking, roads are quickly becoming more and more unsafe for drivers, let alone pedestrians and bikers. Cars are much larger than they were in 90s, people are driving more recklessly than ever and enforcement of traffic laws is at an all time minimum.
A lot of the people espousing the whole free range parenting stuff never actually walk around and understand what the pedestrian experience is like. If they did, they'd be strongly advocating for better road design and pedestrian paths. But you rarely see the two groups intersect.
Re: Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
One important thing that the NPR story completely glosses over is the component of race and class that permeates this issue. It’s not an accident that the prototypical mom of the “free range kid” movement is white and lives in a relatively wealthy neighborhood like the one mentioned in the story. Poor black and brown women are disproportionately targeted by child welfare authorities starting literally from birth. htt…
Sociology departments in America are captured by the current moral fashion (identity politics). If it were me, I'd think twice before believing the research that you linked to.
Hard not to when antisocial policies are intentionally used to disadvantage minorities after the 60s.
We might agree they're focused on a symptom, not a disease, but conservative policy objectives are definitely causing disparities that now even poor white people are finally feeling.
Conservatives shut down public pools in reaction to integration and then proceeded to shut down socialism.
Re: Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'd love to read the papers cited there without having to buy that book. I wonder if what is defined as "support" is actually, meddling, undermining, and pressurzing children into fulfilling the parents needs.
> without having to buy that book You can get the book for $2.74: https://www.amazon.com/Millionaire-Next-Door-Surprising-Amer... Unless there is some other reason you don't want to buy it?
Check the local library or their ebook app.
Re: Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health
#100This is something that free range parenting advocates have been talking about for a long time. See https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/09/03/6412565... . For me one of the most compelling data points wasn't even a parenting reference. It was https://www.amazon.com/Millionaire-Next-Door-Surprising-Amer... . First published in the mid-1990s, the chapters on the children of millionaires found that the more su…
Helicopter parenting was never born of wisdom. It's driven by anxiety.
I’m not a parent so I don’t know what I’m talking about.
However, I have a lot of friends with children and some of their takes are completely irrational to me.
“Let the kids WALK three blocks to school? Not anymore, things aren’t like what we grew up with. It’s scary out there!”
Exactly. Violent crime, etc has been on a general and significant downward trend since we were kids (80s and 90s). It’s not what we grew up with - it’s significantly safer. The media drives a tremendous amount of anxiety and it’s extremely detrimental to parents, kids, and society overall.
It used to be “sex sells” (still does) but more and more it’s “fear sells”.