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What SWE job hunting is like right now

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Re: What SWE job hunting is like right now

#91

Post by lolinder »

lokar wrote: post #64
lolinder wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, and the point of this whole thread is that one end of that bimodal distribution just got a lot smaller than it was 3 years ago, while the other end sits where it always has. There are a lot of people who the FAANG end of the spectrum doesn't have room for anymore who are disappointed to find themselves back on the more sustainable modality.

I agree a lot of people got pulled over into the right hand side during the weird boom and now things are adjusting. But neither side is more "sustainable" than the other (just some individuals expectations). The work is different, the skills are different, the expectations are different. FAANG are not wrong to pay what they pay.

This whole thread serves as evidence that the upper modality wasn't sustainable at the levels it was operating at, while the lower modality is still going relatively strong. That strongly suggests that one is more sustainable than the other.

FAANG employees like to tell themselves that their salaries are/were well deserved and not merely the result of a bubble, but a lot of them are finding out the hard way that that isn't the case.

Re: What SWE job hunting is like right now

#92

Post by lokar »

lolinder wrote: post #72
greatpostman wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

120k is bottom of the barrel wages.

These conversations make no sense without talking about location. OP is talking about a remote (US) position. $120k is a 90th percentile salary in much of the country, and there are tons of people who would be willing to take that salary if it means not having to move to the coasts.

I guess your POV is influenced by your surroundings. I know plenty of people getting 7 figures either remote or they could easily switch to remote if they preferred it.

Re: What SWE job hunting is like right now

#93

Post by lokar »

lolinder wrote: post #91
lokar wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree a lot of people got pulled over into the right hand side during the weird boom and now things are adjusting. But neither side is more "sustainable" than the other (just some individuals expectations). The work is different, the skills are different, the expectations are different. FAANG are not wrong to pay what they pay.

This whole thread serves as evidence that the upper modality wasn't sustainable at the levels it was operating at, while the lower modality is still going relatively strong. That strongly suggests that one is more sustainable than the other. FAANG employees like to tell themselves that their salaries are/were well deserved and not merely the result of a bubble, but a lot of them are finding out the hard way that that…

There were a lot of these jobs even pre covid. Google had like 40k engineers.

Re: What SWE job hunting is like right now

#94

Post by scarface_74 »

dangus wrote: post #88
scarface_74 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn’t mathematically logical. Every month that you are out of a job, you need to make 8% more once you are hired to make up the difference in loss pay. While I wouldn’t have taken just any bullshit low paying full time job after getting Amazoned (full time in the cloud consulting division), I was more than willing to take a contract job and just to keep interviewing while I’m working - especially now that jobs a…

Well, not quite. Laid off people do get paid unemployment benefits, and they also get the non-monetary benefit of not working. I don’t really consider that lost money to be 1:1 in value when considering you aren’t beholden to a work schedule. If you have a working partner I would say it’s a no brainer to take your time. Jump on their healthcare and chill. Oh yeah, if you have kids, you can put childcare costs on hold…

In my previous state of residency GA, unemployment maxes out at $375 a week. In Florida my current state, it’s $275 a week

To put that in context, the day I found out I was being Amazoned and a week before my last day, I reached out to a former CTO that couldn’t afford to hire me. But he did need some work/troubleshooting done in my area of specialty and I billed at $135 an hour and that was cheap. Trust me, I know how much AWS ProServe charges for consulting.

Even run of the mill enterprise dev staff augmentation W2 contracts pay $70/hour.

Re: What SWE job hunting is like right now

#95

Post by JambalayaJim »

zdragnar wrote: post #10
MattGaiser wrote: post #2

> Nobody tests, CI automation is unheard of. This seems like a very dangerous attitude from a plane maker, a drug maker, and a healthcare data provider.

Automated testing is only as good as the tests you write. Most of those industries have very strict formal specification and verification that doesn't lend itself well to the "move fast and break things" attitude of the 2010's web. In fact, the major health org I am working with second-hand (customer of the company I work for) has a hard code freeze mid-November. The remaining 6 weeks of the year prior to Jan 1 is no…

The agility is a bit irrelevant here- that place still sounds like a good place for automated testing.

Re: What SWE job hunting is like right now

#96

Post by scarface_74 »

lokar wrote: post #93
lolinder wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This whole thread serves as evidence that the upper modality wasn't sustainable at the levels it was operating at, while the lower modality is still going relatively strong. That strongly suggests that one is more sustainable than the other. FAANG employees like to tell themselves that their salaries are/were well deserved and not merely the result of a bubble, but a lot of them are finding out the hard way that that…

There were a lot of these jobs even pre covid. Google had like 40k engineers.

And there are 2.7 million software engineers in the US.

Re: What SWE job hunting is like right now

#97

Post by scarface_74 »

CoastalCoder wrote: post #69
anonreeeeplor wrote: post #32

I have been interviewing. Everyone is confused right now. Hiring companies are confused. Recruits are confused. My opinion is we are at a severe dislocation period. I have noticed massive changes in the emerging skills, tools and platforms. Pretty much no code, low code and AI. Everything else looks useless or outdated. Meanwhile, tons of startups and big tech companies are dying and laying off. The skills those peop…

I think that's an excellent analysis. There's another issue I'm not seeing anyone talk about: I'm currently unemployed. But given my life circumstances, I need to make about $170k/year to avoid long-term money problems. I've seen a few jobs in the $140k-$150k range that I'm pretty sure are mine for the asking. But I know that once the market improves, I'd need to move on to other companies for better pay. I'm avoidin…

Have you found a method to exchange your pride for goods and services or have you overcome the widespread addiction to food and shelter that most people seem to still have?

Re: What SWE job hunting is like right now

#98

Post by seanmcdirmid »

scarface_74 wrote: post #66
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would have loved to hire them at $120-140k, but for $175k I can easily find people with 5x more years of experience. Where are you easily finding someone with 20 years experience for 175k?

Outside of the bubble, that’s what most ICs are making if not less working “enterprise Dev” in most metro areas. “20 years of experience” is meaningless. The difference in 7-8 years and 20 is meaningless. This is coming from someone who has 25+ years

Inflation alone in the last few years has made $100k achievable by janitors. $175k today is just $48,800 in 1980 dollars. It doesn’t seem like a lot of money anymore, an experienced SWE could do better changing fields if that is a top end salary.

Re: What SWE job hunting is like right now

#99

Post by scarface_74 »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #98
scarface_74 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outside of the bubble, that’s what most ICs are making if not less working “enterprise Dev” in most metro areas. “20 years of experience” is meaningless. The difference in 7-8 years and 20 is meaningless. This is coming from someone who has 25+ years

Inflation alone in the last few years has made $100k achievable by janitors. $175k today is just $48,800 in 1980 dollars. It doesn’t seem like a lot of money anymore, an experienced SWE could do better changing fields if that is a top end salary.

No janitors are not routinely making $100K. Again, look at the facts. Go to either salary.com or levels.fyi and look at salaries for software developers in most major cities.

Look at salaries for well known non tech companies like Delta, Coke, Home Depot, or UPS. I know those off the top of my head because they have a heavy presence in my former hometown (Atlanta). Also look at insurance companies.

Please tell me all of these fields where you can on average make more with just a four year degree.

Re: What SWE job hunting is like right now

#100

Post by scarface_74 »

kcplate wrote: post #77
garlandkey wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4 years experience at 140k is an insult IMHO. You claim you can easily find ppl w 5+ years experience, but I find that claim dubious. What you're willing to pay and what value we add seem to be vastly different.

> What you're willing to pay and what value we add seem to be vastly different Wow…I think you have that mixed up. You have a very inflated view of the value you add at only 4 years of experience. I am nearing 4 decades in tech and I can count on one hand the number of devs (out of hundreds) have met in my career that when they were at 4 years of experience brought enough value to justify a $140k salary in 2023 dolla…

It doesn’t take much. Since software has close to 0 marginal cost. You could easily develop a feature that by itself bring in more than that over the lifetime of the feature if your company is large enough.
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