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Advice for Prospective PhD Students

gonzales.science

91–97 of 97 posts

Re: Advice for Prospective PhD Students

#91
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be a mutually beneficial relationship. That said, I run into far too many PhD students who want to join my lab who cannot answer the question "Why do you want a PhD?" I work in AI, so there is enormous opportunity inside and outside of academia currently (was not true when I finished my PhD, when it was the least popular area of CS), but I'm very upfront with students about how challenging it is to get a te…

why shouldn't someone be allowed to get a phd for their own pleasure? You are gatekeeping

Each professor can only take on a small number of PhD students. They have to gatekeep on some basis.

Re: Advice for Prospective PhD Students

#92
post #2

I would just flat out advise against it. Don’t set your life up for a dice roll on which PI you get. It can be good. It can be bad. But it’s not a wise gamble for any aspect of life quality that I think is particularly wise to orient towards.

as someone who mastered out SEVERAL years into it this is the only advice anyone will ever need regarding a PhD. of course if you come from money and can roll a dice on a career go for it

Re: Advice for Prospective PhD Students

#93

If you live in the US, have the ability to work in the US, and have a stem degree, the opportunity cost of a PhD is just way too high, many hundreds of thousands of dollars. Technically, one could do the PhD in the UK where PhD is 3 years, to minimize that opportunity cost, but not by much.

You should not get a PhD for the money. That's always been the case. It's a research degree. If it will open doors for the type of work you want to do, that's the only time it's worth it. Traditionally, the reason to get a PhD was that it was the only way to get an academic job. In 2023, I don't recommend academic employment. Sadly, it's just another type of employment today. I started my first academic job in 2002 a…

What do you feel has changed in the last 20 years? (This has been discussed a lot but my impression is that people compare today to the 1960s more than to the 00s).

Re: Advice for Prospective PhD Students

#94
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be a mutually beneficial relationship. That said, I run into far too many PhD students who want to join my lab who cannot answer the question "Why do you want a PhD?" I work in AI, so there is enormous opportunity inside and outside of academia currently (was not true when I finished my PhD, when it was the least popular area of CS), but I'm very upfront with students about how challenging it is to get a te…

why shouldn't someone be allowed to get a phd for their own pleasure? You are gatekeeping

It’s foolish to spend 5-6 years getting paid subsistence wages because you wanted a PhD for fun. Also, phds are not really fun. Grad school is much more miserable than pleasurable.

Re: Advice for Prospective PhD Students

#95
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be a mutually beneficial relationship. That said, I run into far too many PhD students who want to join my lab who cannot answer the question "Why do you want a PhD?" I work in AI, so there is enormous opportunity inside and outside of academia currently (was not true when I finished my PhD, when it was the least popular area of CS), but I'm very upfront with students about how challenging it is to get a te…

why shouldn't someone be allowed to get a phd for their own pleasure? You are gatekeeping

I usually have only 1-3 slots per year. It is a lot of very hard work. If someone can't explain why they want a PhD, they are likely to not complete the program and drop out, in my experience. It takes enormous resources in terms of my time and grant money to train students so I want them to thrive and graduate.

Re: Advice for Prospective PhD Students

#96
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why shouldn't someone be allowed to get a phd for their own pleasure? You are gatekeeping

It’s foolish to spend 5-6 years getting paid subsistence wages because you wanted a PhD for fun. Also, phds are not really fun. Grad school is much more miserable than pleasurable.

Strangely my path both supports and counters your statement. Likely in no way typical. But given the prevalence of negative comments regarding grad school in response to this article I want to say:

I thought getting my PhD was fun and a great time in my life. (looking back with 30 years of hindsight)

Start to end my PhD was a roughly ten year period.

Round 1: (in support of "no fun") Had a great undergrad experience (thank you Harvey Mudd). Entered grad school with goal of teaching at an undergrad only liberal art college. Frequently read Chronicle of Higher Education so I knew there was an over supply of PhD to tenure track positions at the time, but I was special, so no problem. Passed qualifying exams. Received great advise and directed away from my area of interest because it was already full of tenured faculty and was told, correctly, that departments were so full up in that area and it would be near impossible to get a tenure track position in the sub area of CS. I started thesis, published, even had expanded version of a paper invited for inclusion in book. I was playing by the rules, but seeing how the sausage was made, I was ground down and quit

Intermission: (An aside, I was always amused as an undergraduate how the janitors would enter classroom and empty trash can during ongoing classes. So my first post drop out job was a version of that). I got a job as sysadmin in the department I had just dropped out of. Got to go to former professors offices to fix their networking problems, change printer paper for them. Then former classmate was starting a company and I got hired by member of my qualifying exam study group to be first hired employee and company he was co-founding. After quitting that job, I was visiting a friend back in Claremont who was busy inventing MIME. Mentioning that I was unemployed, he said HMC Academic computing was looking for new User Support and Education Coordinator, the former one having quit just before school started. Walked me over to Director of Academic Computing's office. Half hour later I had a job. (Not quite janitor, but closest to cross it off bucket list). Being back in the environment rekindled the dream that sent me to grad school in the first place. So I reapplied to grad school

Round 2: (not following the rules, but having lot of FUN). The solid advice, one shouldn't pay tuition to go to grad school. Me, I paid tuition out of my own pocket, received no institution support as RA or TA. Basically doing it all wrong. My original advisor, in immeasurable kindness, agreed to again be my thesis supervisor. While providing no financial support, I was still a time sink for her. There were moments of pure joy when I got to be a non conformist grad student (aka pain in the butt). Like when the department secretary sent out a letter to all grad students asking help moving furniture from point A to point B. Instead of being a helpful department servant, I got to fire off an angry letter (reply, faculty include, all of course) saying that I was paying my own tuition and wasn't there to provide free labor. I had fun because I was in control of my time. I had fun cause there where great recreation classes on campus. I had fun cause the local vegetarian cafe was the default punk music venue of the city. I have fun cause I was doing things on my terms, studying in a field that I love.

Postscript: Despite odds, got a tenure track position and was assistant professor for 3 year. (Reality was not the same as dream.) After that got another job, again through a (different) member of my qualifying exam study group. Approx 8 year after receiving PhD, I was more or less retired, having easily achieve the financial goal I established as a grad student learning how to enjoying life on a frugal budget.

Re: Advice for Prospective PhD Students

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

progress can be extremely nonlinear - my year or two progress check would have yielded little, but ultimately I was in great shape when graduating my PhD program. Your advice isn't bad, but it's helpful to understand that the foundation can take a while to lay and then progress can accelerate rapidly towards the end.

This is definitely true. I've had some students who ramped up quickly in the first year or two, but some of my best students didn't ramp up until year 3 and had no output before then. It was very stressful for them, though, since students are prone to comparing themselves to the very best.

Yep - exactly. I'm not sure if there's any way to know if progress will accelerate or not. Personal research breakthroughs are likely a combination of preparation, luck, and environment. That can require patience, although I can say that at no time did it feel like my situation was hopeless or way off track. The conditions were appropriate for a breakthrough. If I hadn't seen the light at the end of the tunnel, I think that might have been a signal to switch tracks.
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